Got 8 week puppy, messed up 1st 4 days, starting over

    • Gold Top Dog

    Got 8 week puppy, messed up 1st 4 days, starting over

    So when Leroi was so cute and well-behaved we decided he didn't need the crate because all he wanted to do was sit on the couch.  When he came paper trained (from breeder) we thought it was great because he didn't go on the carpet.  When he didn't really chew that many things we thought he could just roam around the living room as he pleased.
    Nevermind all that because obviously people crate puppies for a reason.  As in another post I made, he would pee outside, then do mini pees inside.  He'd also go on the newspaper the odd time.  As someone else mentioned, I'm not exactly forcing him to learn to hold his bladder if he can always go on the newspaper whenever the feeling hits him.
    We have gone out and bought a proper crate for him and when we are not feeding him, walking him or actively playing with him, he's in the crate.  He loves his crate - he just doesn't love being locked in it away from us for hours at a time.  At night we put the crate in our bedroom so he can see us and he doesn't make a peep.  Today was my first day back at work (he's now 8 wks, 5 days old) and I crated him in front of the TV in the living room.  I came back at the 3 hour mark (and could hear him crying before I got to the apartment) and he had peed in the crate.  Surprising ,since he can usually hold it for 3 hours.  I took him for a walk and he went #2 and I played with him, then put him back in the crate.  My bf came home from work 3 hours later and he had peed in the crate...again. 
    QUESTION: is this because he's only 8 wks old? could it possibly be because it's his first day ever being crated?  because it's my first day back at work so there's no one around him?  because he cried and whined after i left the house and he worked himself up enough to pee because he was upset? 
    Any help?
    We are washing his stuff and do not intend to stop crating.  I do feel mean putting him in the crate for so many hours a day, but it's the way it's gotta be if he's gonna learn to go outside.  He hates outside right now because it's cold (Canada) and he's only like 6lbs so he shakes like a leaf!!  Too bad it wasn't July... 
    • Gold Top Dog
    I will never understand why people who work get puppies.  You really set yourself up for  housebreaking problems, especially with some breeds.
    A little one 8 weeks old sometimes cannot hold it for three hours, and especially if he is awake.  Also, the crate needs to be only large enough for him to stand, turn, and lie down so that he cannot pee in one end and escape to the other.  If your pup is a pet store pup, he may already have learned to soil his crate, and you will be in for a hellish time trying to reschool him if you aren't home.
    If he is cold outdoors, get him a coat that you can quickly fasten on once he's out the door, since you won't have time whilst trying to get him from the crate outside before he has an accident.  Don't scold him for accidents, and do clean them up with something like Petastic, which removes the odor so that they aren't as tempted to use the same spot.
    • Gold Top Dog
    When I have a litter I actually do paper train, but the papers are for overnites and nap times during the day.  It is extremely difficult to train ONLY to outside when you aren't home all the time.
     
    I'd suggest letting him be outside of the crate a bit more, but only when you can watch him 100% or keep him leashed to you so that he can't get far enough away from you to potty....or you'll notice when he moves at all.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I started Zoe out in a large crate with papers on one side.  She would use the papers throughout the day, but I still would stick to a feeding schedule and potty schedule where we would go outside every 2 hours when I was home.  As she got older and was able to hold it longer, I came home during lunch or had a dog walker come to let her out.  We still kept the papers in there but she eventually decided she preferred going outside rather than sitting in that crate next to soiled papers.  Eventually, I removed the papers altogether.  And I'm dealing with a breed that is notriously difficult to housebreak.  The process definitely took longer overall than if I had just done without the papers and took her out every couple of hours, but let's face it, I work and it was not possible.  It is important though that the dog is let out during lunchtime.  Keeping a pup in a crate for more than four or 5 hours during the day is unfair, not to mention it will be very difficult to get any reliable results with housetraining.
    • Gold Top Dog
    3 hours might be too long at 8 weeks old...
     
    I know dogs can hold it a lot longer if they are sleeping (body functions slow down, etc). If you tire him out more before leaving for work, maybe he will sleep happily instead of crying and being upset and soiling the crate.
     
    Also if you are looking for a coat for him (which you should, fellow Canadian![:D]), someone else recommended an Ebay vendor to me that is great. Her Ebay store is called Sighthound Specialties. The coats are custom made and reasonably priced. I haven't received mine yet but she was very nice to deal with and I've heard good things.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Four days? Forget it you've ruined him permanently. JUST KIDDING.... Look, an 8 week old is just a baby. Thinking that an 8 week old dog can be housebroken and well trained is like thinking a one year old child can be good at baseball.
     
    3 hrs is definitely the upper limit of bladder capacity for most 8 wk olds. That said, a common reason for peeing in the crate is having too big a crate. It should be just big enough for him to stand up, turn around, and lie comfortably and no bigger than that. To save money buy an adult-sized crate and partition it into a smaller space. Minimalize or eliminate any bedding.
     
    Part of the problem is likely that he has already been starting on paper training and you are now switching up the methods. You certainly can do that but be aware that dogs always have to be trained to new potty areas, they don't just figure it out. Another option if he keeps soiling the crate is an Xpen or small puppy-proofed room with potty papers in it. But whatever you do you have to teach him where to go. You also have to train a puppy to be in the crate (why they call it crate training)... putting him in there for short periods at first (like 10 seconds) and gradually working up to the three hours.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Great point Jones.  First he comes home with us and is traumatized.  Then we let him roam around and he's happy.  Then we decide to take that away from him and he's traumatized.  Then we go to work and leave him in the crate and he's traumatized.  I know they get over it quickly, but for some reason I keep losing sight of the fact that this takes months, not days. 
    Leroi loves his crate.  We never had to teach him to sit in it - he just doesn't like being closed into it all by himself for 3 hours at a time.  He's never in for longer than that.  I come home at lunch at the 3 hour to let him out and my bf is home 3 hours after that.  He stays in it longer overnight but that's because he's happy and has no problem holding his bladder while he snoozes. 
    Scout, thanks so much for the ebay sit, I'm going to check it out right this second. 
    On a sidebar, I'm really going thru what I guess could be described as puppy post-pardum depression.  My bf and I wanted a dog for so long, and now it's here and I haven't slept properly in days, and I have a cold, and if it wasn't for my bf holding us together, I'd be driving Leroi back to the breeder's.  It has nothing to do with him being a bad dog because he's not.  I know I sound like a horrible person, I'm just having a really hard time adjusting my life - it was just me and my bf for several years and now...it's not.  I seem to torture myself with all the cons to owning a dog, during my walk to work.  I don't know why I'm doing this.  All my friends said they felt the same way when they got their dogs...I'm praying this feeling passes...
    • Gold Top Dog
    BTW, you'll want to give him back again when he hits adolescence.  [:D]

    It's called puppy buyer's regret - most of us get over it on the way to having a really good dog!
    • Gold Top Dog
    On a sidebar, I'm really going thru what I guess could be described as puppy post-pardum depression. My bf and I wanted a dog for so long, and now it's here and I haven't slept properly in days, and I have a cold, and if it wasn't for my bf holding us together, I'd be driving Leroi back to the breeder's. It has nothing to do with him being a bad dog because he's not. I know I sound like a horrible person, I'm just having a really hard time adjusting my life - it was just me and my bf for several years and now...it's not. I seem to torture myself with all the cons to owning a dog, during my walk to work. I don't know why I'm doing this. All my friends said they felt the same way when they got their dogs...I'm praying this feeling passes...

     
    Normal, normal, normal! [:D] Getting a puppy IS a big disruption to your life, and it isn't always totally rewarding right away, especially not in the first few days. Most puppies are not all kisses and cuddles... this is why they make 'em so cute, so you'll hang in there. Don't worry, the feeling WILL pass. [:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I wanted a dog for YEARS and when I finally had Louise I spent the first week or two wondering if I had made the biggest mistake ever. Sleep deprivation, being overwhelmed at the 2984 things I had to teach this tiny puppy who didn't know *anything*, wondering if I really wanted to wake up at 7AM every day for the next 15 (hopefully more!) years, etc. Eight months later, I think getting Louise was the best thing I've ever done. Hang in there! It gets so much better, especially as you see all your hard work paying off and build a meaningful relationship with your dog.
    • Gold Top Dog
    It's called puppy buyer's regret - most of us get over it on the way to having a really good dog!

     
    Some of us are still going through it on a periodic basis![:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Don't worry it seems overwhelming at first! There is so much to do, and young puppies like that are such a time commitment.
     
    Just remember that a) you are not the first person to have a puppy and work full time. It will be tough, but you'll figure it out.
     
    b) You have a moldable young puppy who can be shaped into a wonderful companion. All the socialization you do now (so important!!) and behavior work, tiring as it may be, will give you an adult dog that lives peacefully with you and is welcome around other people. Remember it's not like this forever! [&:]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Wow...you may not believe it, but these last replies are what makes me believe the feeling will pass.  We waited long enough to be sure we wanted a dog and were careful to pick the right breed (it was actually MY 2-year love affair with whippets that lead us to Leroi), and then I got him and was like WHOA...nevermind I don't want a dog anymore!!
    It seems to be a real rollercoaster with Leroi.  One day he'll act like a weirdo and twirl around his harness outside and whine at me for no reason whatsoever...then this afternoon I get a call from my bf to let me know he made it the 3-hour afternoon stretch in his crate with no accidents.  I swear the highlights of my life now consist of when and if my dog pees and poos.  It's the little victories that keep me going.  Sleep deprivation, as someone previuosly mentioned, also makes it very hard to think and deal rationally.  If I don't have enough sleep (and you know that I don't!) then small things do seem to be the end of the world for me. 
    Anyway, I REALLY appreciate the support from all of you.  I needed to know that this was normal and that the feeling passes.  Like I said, I flip-flop so often that I look forward to the day when I flip for good.  He's 9 weeks old as of today so we're still at the beginning of a long journey re: housebreaking, obedience and growth.
    P.S. is it possible that Leroi literally gets bigger everyday?  I SWEAR he's bigger every morning.  He's growing like a WEED.  Today he's huge compared to when we brought him home exactly one week ago.
    ALSO (I know I'm still going), he doesn't wolf down every meal we give him.  We are trying to keep him to a schedule so the pooping doesn't get out of control, but he does seem to be a bit of a grazer - no littermates to fight for food with anymore.   Whippets are already scrawny so I'm paranoid he won't get enough food, but I can't force the kibbles down his throat.  I'm feeding him the same Iams puppy food the breeder feed him with a tiny bit of that Iams puppy gravy on top (which he loves).  The gravy seems to help in getting him to eat the kibble, but not always.  Do you think his appetite will mature and stabilize as he does?
    • Gold Top Dog
    I wanted to add: Make sure you put him in the crate sometimes while you're still at home, just for short times. This was he doesn't think going in the crate = you leaving.

    Save a really special something for only in the crate. With Scout, it's her stinky stuffed kings and stuffed hollow bones. She only gets them in there, so she looks forward to it.
     
    In regards to the food, I was told by many people here to pick up the food if he hasn't eaten it after say, 15 mintues. No food until next mealtime. Stick with the 15 minute limit if he doesn't get over there and eat. He'll figure it out.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I was EXHAUSTED the first weeks.   I forgot how much work a puppy was and I am 50.  We were a little luckier that she was 4 months when we got her.  But its been 3 months of accidents as hard as I try to take her out as much as possible.  DH and I just resigned ourselves to replacing the carpet when she is 2.  So I don't even care when she piddles inside in the bedrrom.
     
    And YES I just wanted to give her back to the breeder.  Like your BF, my DH held it together by taking a week off work to do puppy potty breaks.
     
    Take some Rescue Remedy from the health food store, it will relax you.
     
    Yes, I had remorse with all 3 dogs we got,,,now I wouldn't have traded them for the world.