Dog Community

Trying to train a 4m old Basset hound

Posted : 8/3/2006 6:40:37 AM

Hello all, I am new to this message board but I must say it is very nice and I look forward to reading a lot of useful information here.

Now the reason I sought this community out.

My wife and I recently moved out of my parent#%92s home and into our new home (well a hand full of months now) and one of the things we real missed about my old house was the family pet that we had to leave behind with the rest of the family. So we have decided to look for our own pet and along the way my wife fell in love with this 4 mount old female Basset hound and we took him home.

Just a little back ground for my question. I was reluctant to get another dog, I love dogs and I am really enjoying the time I spend with our new little one, but my reluctance came from the fact that both my wife and I work and that we work about a ½ hours drive from our house. Subsequently the new puppy would have to be alone during the day for about 7.5 to 8 hours. I leave the house at 5:30am and return home at or a little before 4:00pm most days (a little earlier on others) and my wife leaves a little after 8am and does not come home until 6pm. This means the dog will be home alone from a little after 8am to 4:00pm. So again that#%92s about 8 hours of alone time. My last family pet, the one we had to leave behind with the rest of the family, has the luxury of the fact that my mother works in the same town as their house she comes home for lunch. I was nervous that this dog would not have that luxury and weather it would be right to even get her.

But my reluctance was reassured by the salesman ( I know “salesman”, but the woman seemed nice and really into the dogs) who said that 8 hours may be pushing it but that the dog should be fine, and that the dog spends all day in the crate in their shop so anything is an improvement on that. Not to mention the dog was quickly not going to be a puppy anymore and so losing most of its appeal to people. That made sense to me so we got the pup and took her home.

But I am wondering now if I made the wrong decision and was hoping some of the members her could tell me how to best cop with my dilemma.

We have decided to crate train our puppy. It worked every well with the old family pet so we are hoping it will work her. Unfortunately the pup wets the crate at lest once during the night and once during the day. It seems like only once as the amount of fluid in the paper under the bedding is only one spot, and the bedding seems to be dry by the time we look in on it in the morning and after noon (one time it was wet as if she had just done it when I came home). Just so you know we put her down at around 10:00 pm, when she starts to fall asleep on her own, and she comes out at 5:00am when I get up to go to work.

Now We have only been training her for about 4 days now, so if its just a matter of time I will understand that my wife and I have great paints. We have been diligent to follow all the rules of crate training and the pup has only had a few accidents in the house and each time it was attributed to our fault not the dogs. I am also starting to get the notion that she knows she has to go to the bath room when I bring her outside, as the time between when I take her out and she goes as shortened and some times she seems to want to go but cant (or only goes a little) when she is brought out side for other reasons.

What I am really worried about is the time she spends in the crate and her accidents there while we are not around to watch. The night accident is unacceptable in the long run as she must be able to hold it while we sleep. But I am unsure if I am asking to much that she not make an accident during the day since we are leaving her for a long time. \

Now again we have only been doing this for 4 days. So I would love to hear from you all that I just need to give it more time, we are ready and willing to do that. But I am nervous its not that easy, that we are doing something wrong and so I am asking for your advice.

On an alternate idea – would in house training her be better? We would love it if she could stay until she can go out side, but if that is asking to much my wife and I were thinking about in house training. And if it is suggested that we do, can we both train her to go out side when we are around and only use the wee pads when we leave her during the day?

Also she is developing a little bit of a rash on her lower belly, I assume she is getting that for sitting in her pee before it is absorbed down into the bedding and paper under that. It does not bother her to much, but I see her scratching it a little. She will be seeing the Vet for the first time (since we got her, she is up today with all her shots) and we will find out about it then.

This turned out to be a long post, I thank you for your time to just read it, and thank you even more if you can offer any insight.

glenmar

Posted : 8/3/2006 7:28:43 AM

Congratulations on your new family member and welcome to idog!

Your little one came from a pet store and I'll spare you the evils of pet stores and the origin of the pups they sell, but, the fact that she lived her life in a cage (crate) and had NO choice but to toilet in her sleeping quarters, will make it tougher to break that inclination now. If you can leave her in a gated room, like the laundryroom or bathroom (very puppyproofed of course), with maybe some pee pads or a litter box AND her crate to sleep in, that would work better.

See pups come with a built in "don't pee where you sleep" inhibition, BUT when you cage them for weeks on end and don't give them any option, that inhibition is broken. I watched a pup of ours (long story why he was even created) from the age of about 3 weeks on, seek out the far side of his whelping box for toileting and NOT pee or poop in his bedding. I knew in my head that this inhibition existed, but I had never WATCHED it with my own eyes and seen just how strong it was until Shadow.

Another thing that pet store pups don't get is ANY housetraining at all, so they are always just a bit more difficult to housetrain. But, the good news is that it can be done and it WILL happen, it just takes time and patience. If you can possibly find an area to gate off or even get an exercise pen so that she has her own little space I suspect that very quickly she'll learn that she LIKES having dry bedding and would much rather potty someplace else. Normally, at 4 months she can hold it for 5 hours (one hour for each month of age, plus one) BUT she hasn't been asked to hold it in her cage at the pet store, nor does she know to whine when she has to go at nite, so it's important to provide her with a place she can go OTHER than in her bed.

Now, the cost of coming to idog is posting pictures........pay up!! And again, welcome.

Dante -

Posted : 8/3/2006 9:42:46 AM

Thank you for the advice and the well come. I will take a few pictures when I get home.

If I am understaning you correctly you are sugesting that when I leave for the day and when we are asleep I put the crate in a small or closed off area but leave it oppend, and on the other side of the area put down pads for her? That advice does seem logical and I do have an area of my house in wich I can do that.

Thank you for your help

sherry DIckman

Posted : 8/3/2006 10:06:00 AM

Hello. I am in the same boat you are in dandandan; we have a 5 1/2 month old springer spaniel. Just got her two days ago. Now first, we have had springers for about 18 years, 3 of them, so they are not new to us, nor their habits. However, after our last dog died we have waited 1 1/2 years and decided that an "older" puppy would be best for us: Anyway, we bought from a breeder a "4" month old "housebroken" puppy. Yea, right. That dog was realy 5 1/2 months old (we wondered why she was so tall, but then again, some springers are tall) and NOT at all housebroken. Their idea of housetraining a dog (they had seven) was to open up the front door, let the dog on the deck (gated) and it pooped and peed there. YUCKY!
Well, we now have an untrained 5 1/2 month old dog.

Here is what we are doing. We keep our dog crated, with only 1 towel and NO water. She was crated yesterday for 7 hours and she had one accident, (based on amount). Anyway, both nights she has not had any accidents in her crate. I do not believe in pee pad training. I think they will then learn to go on a towel, or blanket, if they are ever left alone. Kinda like a cat...

They will learn, with gentle praise and reinforcement to "go outside' if you take them consistantly. I know you can't let her out earlier than the 8 hours and maybe there isn't a choice for you. But, we have only had a few accidents in our dogs crate(s) over the years, training them this way. I am going to let my dog go for six hours today and see if that helps. If Ruby doesn't pee in her crate in the six hours, tomorrow it will be seven hours. I figure if she can stay dry for 8 hours at night, then she can do it during the day. Also, "they" recommend that you take water away 2-3 hours BEFORE bedtime, and never, ever put water in the crate. If they aren't full....That is what we have done with our other dogs and it has worked out. I only give them water after that time span if we have a heat wave. I live in Michigan so, sometimes....it's hot and I have to break my own rules.

Good luck to you. My dog peed and pooed this morning AFTER I took her out (where she did go too). GGGRRRR. Good thing I have a carpet shampooer.
Sherry

glenmar

Posted : 8/3/2006 10:24:48 AM

Small world...I'm in MI also.

I placed a pup at 5 months who WAS housetrained in MY house, and I gave careful instructions about how we'd housetrained. I kept hearing from the new family that he would NOT go outside to pee. Well, they had a ceramic tile floor that was frequently just wet enough to cause him to slip and he was afraid of that floor, so didn't WANT to go outside because to get outside he had to walk on the floor he was afraid of. Now, a simple throw rug would have solved the problem, but......when he came BACK two months later he made ONE mistake in my house......I caught him midstream, said "unh uh, did you forget that we go OUTSIDE to go POTTY?" and took him straight outside and praised him for finishing there. He's been back 6 months now and has NEVER had another accident. So, yeah, he might have been housetrained THERE but dogs don't generalize well, and now suddenly going outside into GRASS confuses him.

Yes, dandandan, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. When I have foster litters I am NOT gonna spend the entire nite getting up to potty puppies and I have a huge ex pen that I attach to their HUGE crate and put pads in the far end. I also always leave water available. I don't find using pads to be a problem transitioning to ONLY outside and never have found it to be a problem. It's handy when youngsters learn that there are certain places that ARE ok, since those pups get old some day and getting outside or downstairs could be a problem. With my elderly cocker it was very nice that he wasn't totally opposed to using the pee pads when he absolutely had to. Beat the heck out of cleaning up the messes by the door.

Christi

Posted : 8/3/2006 10:41:25 AM

Glenda also suggested perhaps using a litterbox. To elaborate on that, you could buy some sod at your local home and garden center and put it in the litterbox and put that at the far end of the puppy area (x-pen or small room) that way puppy can learn that grass is the place to pee and poop. It really works and for a four month old, even with her history, she should adapt quickly. But I think it's really important that you do all you can to stop the crate accidents ASAP. Can't wait to see pics - I LOVE Bassets.

Dante -

Posted : 8/3/2006 12:26:18 PM

Thats a realy good idea, and I may just be handy enough to do something like that. Thanks for the sugesting.

Thanks again [link>http://forum.dog.com/asp/showProfile.asp?memid=6117]glenmar[/link]

and thank you to [link>http://forum.dog.com/asp/showProfile.asp?memid=21527]sdickman[/link]

glenmar

Posted : 8/3/2006 12:44:37 PM

That's exactly what I did. I made three "frames" from 2x4's, attached fencing and then fastened them together. Did the trick with the crate being the 4th side. But, my last litter was german shepher pups and they can really team up to knock an ex pen over!

jones

Posted : 8/3/2006 3:50:31 PM

Shame on that saleswoman for telling you a 4 month old puppy could hold its bladder all day, that simply isn't true. As Glenda said, your puppy can hold it for about 5 hrs while crated and probably just a couple of hours when not crated.

Dante -

Posted : 8/8/2006 6:42:45 AM

Thank you all for the great advice.

I do want to make a correct that my wife pointed out to me, my pup Sammy is 5 months old not 4, her birthday is on the 3rd and so when we got her she was technically still 4 months old so I had that in my head, but in reality she is 5 months.

Again thank you for the advice, I built a little area for her in one of our unused rooms. Her crate opened on two sides so I corned one of the openings and blocked it off while I left the other for the main entrance. The blocked off area opens to about the size of a large storage bin and about a 1/2 a foot between the litter box (the large storage bin) and the crate. I filed the litter with “secondnature Dog Litter”

.

Man do they charge crazy prices for supplies, that litter box shown in the picture cost $20. I went to home depot and bought a storage bin for $5 and cut it out my self, and with mine there are high walls so she wont make a mess when she goes in.

I don#%92t know if she uses the litter box, but she stopped having accidents in her crate. Ether that secondnature litter stuff works really well or she is holding it. The litter box did alter me to one thing however and that was when she woke up in the morning, 4am. Before the litter box I would wake up at 5am to take her out before I got ready for work, and every time I found a dried accident in her crate and she only whet a little pee out side with me. But on the first morning with the litter she woke me up at 4am with her rustling in side the box, I then took her out at 4 instead of 5 and there was no accident in the crate. I always assumed the accident was happening some time in the middle of the night because of how dry it would be, but it looks now like it might have always been an hour before I would normally wake for her.

So then this past weekend I woke at 4am for her instead of 5 and again there where no accidents. Yesterday morning and again today I went back to waking up at 5 to see what would happen. There where no accidents and she was much more egger to go to the bathroom then before (ie she went as soon as we got out side, instead of sniffing around some) and she squatted longer then she would normal (morning or other wise). I would like to believe she held it through the night. Do you think it would be wise to do the experiment of removing the litter for the night to see if there are any accidents in the crate? Or maybe remove the litter peaces so that if she does pee in the litter box I will be able to see it?

As for the day time while my wife and I work, the first day Friday there was an accident in the crate but every day since there was not. Of course if I do remove the litter for bed time I will put it back for the day. Night time is only 10pm to 5am – 6/7 hours day is more like 8.

As far as her training goes, I think she is doing well – at lest I hope. With consistency and a few treats and praise she seems to understand that the first thing we do when we go out side is go pee. But she has not yet fully taken to the idea that inside is not for peeing. But even then I would say we only ketch her in the act of one accident a day inside (if that) when at the beginning of last week we would ketch her and stop her at lest three or four times and maybe miss one. She seems to be more comfortable with the house now and is drinking less water (when we first got her she would be drinking constantly and always sinning) maybe this attributes to her better behavior. I would also like to think that on occasion she is telling me she has to go out, I get that feeling but its not as sure as it was with my last dog (the family pet we had to leave with the family when my wife and I moved out).

Dante -

Posted : 8/18/2006 7:45:51 AM

Just an update,

I am officially frustrated with Sammy, its been three weeks now with no marketable signs of improvement form the first week and its staring to bother me. She had learned the “Go Pee Pee” command we taught her and her accidents decreased considerably to one (maybe, maybe two a day) the first week but that has not improved in the last two weeks.

If we take her out regularly we avoid accidents and when we say “Go Pee Pee” she knows what we want her to do and obliges if she has pee pee to go (and if she is not being stubborn – some times it take a few minuets to get her attention)

But at certain times (once maybe, maybe twice) a day she will just squat in the house.

If you asked me I would say she does not care where she goes and has not learned inside is bad for going and outside is good for going. She just goes when she feels like it (inside or out) or when we give her the command to go (which is always outside obviously). That the only reason her accidents have decreased over time is that my wife and I have gotten better at draining (yes I meant draining

) her out side with the “Go Pee Pee” command.

Her crate training has improved since I took the advice that is posted about. She no longer pees where she sleeps, she goes into the smalls extra space I created just out side her crate where I kept a doggy litter box. Upon till yesterday I was unsure if she was holding it or using the litter box as the box did a great job of masking what ever she might have done. But yesterday I removed the litter box and replaced it with news paper so that I could tell if she had gone or not. What I fond was that two nights ago she did not have an accident, she held it all night long. I also found that yesterday while we where at work for 8 hours she held it as well with no accidents. Last night (or this morning) how ever she had wet the news paper.

Oh well that#%92s my rant, I hope she improves soon as I cant live this way for ever.

Pam

Posted : 8/18/2006 3:17:39 PM

Congrats on your new puppy. We just bought a 4 /2 month old english bulldog which are suposedly hard to house break. Its been 3 weeks now.

The rules are you have to take the pup out immediately after waking, eating and playing. Seems to be working for us.

We babygated our large bathroom and put newspapers down, and water, a soft bed, a towel, toys. The crate is in our bedroom. The bathroom is used as her playroom while at work.

our schedule now on vacation (give or take):
9PM last pee (try to withhold water an hour before but she plays so hard on the bed and gets thirsty so sometimes she drinks and I worry all nite she will pee in the crate
7AM - hubby takes her out (on vacation now so its 7 AM) and play in the yard
9AM - breakfast in the bathroom and playtiem
12:30-

otty break outside
1:00 - grandma babysits and gives her potty breaks
6:00 - dinner
6:15 - play on my bed
7:30 - potty break
7:45 - play inside
9:00 - potty break
9:15 - into the crate or allow to sleep on my pillow

If you can take the water away by 7 PM

We will both be back at work on Monday so hubby willl take her out at 5AM unless she wants to stay in the crate til 7AM. She will be in the bathroom with the TV on for 4 hours until I get home and hand her over to Grandma to babysit.

Yes we've had some accidents like peeing a bucket on my bed and mattress, but eventually it will be over in a few months I hope.
We've had no accidents in the crate.