Official Service Dog?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Official Service Dog?

    For a few years Maggie has been more and more helpful to me in alerting me to knocks at the door, people shouting at the front gate, and the telephone ringing. I'm hard of hearing and it's getting steadily worse.

    But, now Maggie is 13 and it seems she's getting hard of hearing herself. More often than not she simply sleeps through the telephone, which was her favorite cue before. Bad timing, since I need her more than ever now.

    Today I was waiting for a really important phone call and so I was close enough to the phone to see it flash, pretty much all day. Zhi noticed the association between my jumping up and going to the phone, and it ringing, I guess. After I took the important call, I went back to my usual vantage point where I could watch the sheep graze - but out of sight and hearing of the phone. Suddenly Zhi jumped up and went to the door and did her little spin dance that means she wanted to do something. I opened the door thinking she had to go potty and she ran to the phone! Which was ringing, duh.

    I had a chance to give her a little fried chicken the next couple times she "told" me the phone was ringing. She's got it, at least for that phone.

    I'd love to expand her repertoire and take it on the road. There's so many times I could use ears out there. Eventually I'll get a hearing aid I'm sure, but I've heard they still haven't figured out how to do things like pick out an oncoming siren from road noise, or hear a cell phone in a purse (both constant problems of mine).

    She needs a LOT more obedience work but she's got it in her, I know. Most of her mischief is just misdirected energy. If she had a job she'd be much more settled.

    She is hairless, so she's practically allergy free. She fits in a purse.

    My question is, is there any official certification I can get for her to get her accepted as an actual service dog? The big problem is taking her in the car in the summer - I can't leave her in there - or actually for a lot of the year here in the southeast. But I'd rather put a great big official badge of some sort on her bag, or on her harness, rather than explain to every single person that she's a service dog. Then I have to get into my actual handicap and while I don't mind that, it's sort of embarrasing, especially when I have trouble hearing the person speaking half the time anyway!

    To wit, conversation one:

    Store clerk: "You can't bring that dog in here."
    Me: "Oh, I'm sorry, what?" Please note, people rarely actually repeat what they say when you ask that, they rephrase whatever they said, usually more vaguely and tersely.
    SC: "The dog."
    Me: "Oh, right, sorry - she's my service dog. She'll stay in the bag - I just can't leave her in the car since it's too hot."
    SC: "Aren't guide dogs usually bigger?"
    Me: "Um, what?"
    SC: "Bigger - seeing eye dogs. German shepherds."
    Me: (after a moment to figure out what German Shepherds have to do with it, since that was the loudest and clearest phrase) "Um, she's not a seeing eye dog. She's a hearing alert dog."
    SC: "What the heck is that?" Although, probably wouldn't say "heck."

    Conversation two, much preferred if possible:

    Store Clerk: "You can't bring that dog in here."
    [Skip forward a couple lines to where I actually figure out what the person wants]
    Me: "Ah, yes, this is Zhi, my Alpha One Certified Service Dog. See, here's her badge. She'll stay in the bag."
    SC: "Oh, OK."
    • Gold Top Dog
    I could be wrong, but my understanding is that there are tests/certifications for service dogs, but I don't think that stores can ask you to produce any sort of certification b/c I don't think there is one that is universally accepted.  Like, Paws for a Cause would have their own test and criteria that may be different than another organization training service dogs.  I think anybody can put a vest and some service dog patches on their dog and never even get asked, which is weird to think about, but that's my understanding for where I live.  I've never worked with a service dog or known one so I could be totally wrong.
    • Gold Top Dog
    You have to be disabled to legally have a service dog, so that's something to talk to your doctor about. The doctor MAY know where you should go to get her certified, too. Shes' absolutely perfect for the job, I think.

    And you don't have to state your disability when bringing your service dog out, with you. That's against the Medical Privacy Act. If you say she's a service dog, they're supposed to leave you alone. And she doesn't have to stay in a bag, though she certainly can, if that's what she likes to do.

    I've read a little about it[;)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    As far as I know there are no tests or certification requirements for a service dog.  The ADA doesn't allow it.  In fact I don't believe that you can be challenged.
     
    If fact if you want a laminated ID and all the fancy vests and patches there are places on the web that sell those to anyone.
     
    I know there are people out there that cheat and claim their dog is this or that.  They fly them on airlines, take them to amusement parks, etc.  I don't believe that it is in the best interest of those who really require these dogs on a daily basis for people to cheat.  It does make it harder for everyone else if the dog isn't spot on perfect. 
     
    There are some people on this forum that have the need for service dogs.  Hopefully they will chime in.
     
     
    • Silver
    Just go to a doctor and get it on file that you have hearing trouble.  Then go online and get a service dog vest and patch.  The laminated cards help too but the site that I know had them is currently out.  They state that this is a service dog and what the rules are.  They are only allowed to ask if you have a disability and whether your dog is a service animal and what training it has or what is trained for.  They cannot ask you for any proof.  However if a business owner does decide to call the police or denies you access and you call the police it may be required later for you to provide the doctor's records to a court to show that you were in the right.  On the spot though even a police officer cannot force you to leave an establishment if you claim to be disabled with a service dog unless the animal is showing dangerous or very disruptive behavior(ie growling at people or endlessly barking).  Alot of people are self training service dogs now because the wait to get one is way too long and there is no certification required to claim a dog as a service dog.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I can't answer any of your questions, but congrats to Zhi!  I knew a woman in NM who had an Iggy for a service dog (she was wheelchair bound and the iggy was perfect to help her pick stuff up, etc.) and there's a hearing alert basenji service dog in the Pacific NW.  Also a papillon got a service dog award from the AKC years ago.  Good luck.  Keep us up dated.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Already been to the doctor. I'm officially unilaterally "profoundly impaired", with the hearing reducing in the other at an alarming rate. I stopped short of getting tests done to find out why exactly (and what can be done) when we had to go on our current crappy medical plan.

    So, is there some kind of process I have to go through to get legal status? Wow, I'd never really thought of it.

    She'd just stay in the bag for my convenience, and because if my cell phone rang it would be easier for her to get my attention quietly at bag level. LOL.

    This is really opening up some possibilities. It's easy enough to get people to talk more clearly/loudly if I need to, but I was getting really tired of having to explain to people that I not only cannot hear the phone ring, but I can't hear the message either unless I'm standing right there with my ear pressed down to the speaker. And forget the cell phone. I can't tell you how many important calls I've missed with the phone right in my purse.

    Zhi's going to be a monster if I am successful at working this out. She already thinks she is the Queen of the Universe. This will go right to her head. [8|]

    "Where's my badge?"

    • Gold Top Dog
    I *think* you have to be legally disabled, but I'm not for sure on that. I don't know how that would happen, either, but it sounds like you'd easily qualify, with that much hearing impairment.

    Is there some sort of internet list for people with hearing assistance dogs?
    • Gold Top Dog
    The requirements for service dogs vary from state to state ( or other local governments) ... Some "licensing" or "certification" of dogs for disability support such as having a dog in a no pet housing facility has been in place in OH.  In most cases, the dogs are trained by recognized organizations, in others individuals train their dogs and get recognized by passing "tests".  Most of the tests are very similar to therapy dog internation and delta society behavior tests related to socialization etc.  I would google hearing dogs and look for the information.  I would check your state requirements as well.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm not a lawyer, but going to hit questions one at a time here. As a user of an owner-trained service dog, these are just from my research.

    First off, excellent for Zhi! :) Alert tasks can be really, really useful.

    Firstly, you need to figure out if you're legally disabled. (Substantially limited ine one or more major life aspects.) For eample, my upstairs neighbor is diagnosed with depression, but she takes meds for ti (and responds to them) and it doesn't limit her at all. Even without the meds, she's still not 'substantially limited'- she's just depressed all the time. She still dated and worked and took care of herself, etc. My depression *is* substantially limiting- when I'm at the downswing, I don't respond to meds, I don't have enough energy to take care of myself or do the things I need to do. So while your hearing impairment may be severe enough, it may not- I have a friend who is profoundly deaf who is NOT 'substantially limited' enough to qualify as disabled, despite the fact that he gets accomodations from his workplace- his hearing aids are all the asistive tech he needs, a dog wouldn't do much for him except when he doen't have his aids in and he uses other stuff for those times.

    Yes on the more obedience. I have a personal opinion that any SD should be able to qualify for their CD (not just a CGC) without a problem. This is, however, just a personal opinion- but a dog who can get their CD has at least a fundamental grasp of manners, IMO.

    There is no official certification. There are sham agencies (like SARA) where you send them your money and they end you 'official' documentation, but certification is not required under the ADA.

    Here's where it gets tricky: Service dogs in training aren't covered by the ADA. You may, or may not have public access rights with a SDIT. In some states, only the trainer does (and owner trainers count in some states, but not in others), in others, only a puppy raiser does, and in yet others, no dogs in training have any access except that granted at the whim of the individual store.

    I would *NOT* be putting her in a purse- it looks bad, frankly, and you'll get more people assuming she's a fake SD (most toy breed dogs in purses with people claiming them as SDs *ARE* fakes, IME)- she's big enough (if she's normal crested-size) to walk on her own and be tucked under your arm in a crowd if you really worry about her getting stepped on. You *will* get access challanges, even with a patch bigger than your dog. What they are allowed to ask is "Are you disabled?" "IS that your assistance animal?" and "What tasks does she perform?". That's it. Anything else, you can tell them to please call the police, you'd like to file a complaint. ;) Additioanlly, how is she going to alert you from the bag? She probably needs to be able to move more to do that?

    With access challanges, I've found it helpful to actually role-play them with folks for practice.

    gatekeeper: "Hey, you can't bring that dog in here."
    me: "He's a service dog." *smile and keep moving- note I didn't explin my disability, didn't offer to put him in a bag (it'd be a big bag, for Mal!) and didn't offer to leave and come back without him.*
    gatekeeper: "You don't look disabled/you don't look blind/what's a service dog/what does he do?"
    "That's right (as syrupy and chirpy as I can manage it, on a good day. On a bad day I ahve been known to mutter things like "Well, you don't look dense, so obviously one can never tell.")/a service dog is a dog who is trained to assist a disabled individual, including but not limited to guiding the blind. there are many types of service dogs."/ and/or (if I think they are asking about tasks "he reminds me to take my medications, helps prevent me from getting disoriented, and alerts me to sounds I don't notice." )


    Please DON'T (even if you get one) produce a letter or 'official SD ID" of any sort. They're not required by the federal government, and it sets up the gatekeeper to expect the same from future SD users who don't have to have them.

    Sham85, 'hearing trouble' is too inspecfic and may or may not hold up in court. I have hearing problems (CAPD) BUT they're neurological and wouldn't qualify me as hearing impaired. (It's processing that's the problem)

    Additionally, I think you may want to think NOW about what you will do in bad weather. Obviously a bag would help, but how will Zhi stay warm, etc, if she's out in public with you?

    You may want to come ask these questions over at ServiceDogCentral.org - it's a really great forum with good critical discussion and lots of knowlegable folks. :)
    • Gold Top Dog
    Really great info, thanks!

    I run two businesses from my cell phone so if I don't hear that sucker ring, it's less food on the table. I tried a "vibrate" phone but it didn't work for some reason - I've tried it with three different phones and I think they make them for men that don't wear lots of layers, ahem.

    I guess with the bag I was thinking of her being less obstrusive - her bag isn't cutesy, it's very utilitarian looking. She's a VERY striking little girl - it takes me twice as long to do anything in stores where I take her now because of people who want to start conversations about her and schmooze. That would probably not work well. My main intent in being able to take her inside a store or office would be to protect her, however - it's in the car itself that I'd forsee her being helpful - sirens, car horns, my cell phone. Plus traveling - hotel phone, my cell phone again, knocks at the door.

    I couldn't do that and then leave her in the car in hot weather. If it weren't for that I'd train her and not bother with pursuing any official status. I still will, of course - her biggest use will be in the house.

    Oh, I just realized - hotels! Sometimes a conference I attend doesn't allow dogs. In fact they almost never do! Hmm. I will look at that forum and at least lurk.

    She's actually a pretty small crestie - only 11" tall. I see other cresteds and they look huge to me. She's very confident though and handles herself well.

    We started today. First step - You Are My Shadow. This is different for her royal highness - she's used to doing whatever she wants in the house. If this is going to work, she's going to have to learn to follow me around just like the BCs do. She's catching on already, though - I don't think she liked being at loose ends before!

    I'm also rewarding her for coming and touching me with her paw instead of barking to alert to something. She's added "Someone's in the driveway" to her repertoire. [:D]

    Oh, as far as the weather - this is a very mild climate and so far Zhi has not shown any sign of having difficulties with the ugliest weather we have around here. Assuming she is well dressed. I guess we'd have to make her some clothes that are more serious looking than the cutesy things she normally wears.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Under ADA, you do not have to "certify" your dog.  If you have a disability, and you have an owner-trained service dog that assists you, you are entitled to public access with your dog.  Proprietors can only legally ask if the dog is an assistance dog. You do not have to divulge the nature of your disability, only state that the dog is an assistance dog.  Some folks carry little wallet cards with the Dept. of Justice blurb on them.  The fact that you have a service dog does not mean that the dog can create a nuisance, so must be able to get out of the way, for example, in a restaurant - it's not ok for your service dog to bark the meal away, or trip the waitress LOL.  If you go to the IAADP website, you will get lots of good info.  To qualify as a legitimate service dog, the animal must be able to perform specific tasks for you related to your disability.  The hearing dog suggested tasks are on this page: [linkhttp://www.iaadp.org/tasks.html.]http://www.iaadp.org/tasks.html.[/link]
    You might also be interested in this Yahoo group: [linkhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/OC-Assist-Dogs/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OC-Assist-Dogs/[/link]
    These folks use operant conditioning to train their own service dogs.
    And, grab these books:
    [linkhttp://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTH164&AffiliateID=45071&Method=3]http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTH164&AffiliateID=45071&Method=3[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.workingdogs.com/bookstore/us/product/0944875564.htm]http://www.workingdogs.com/bookstore/us/product/0944875564.htm[/link]
    You can buy patches/vests for your dog here, however, there is, to my knowledge, no legal requirement that you identify the dog this way:
    http://www.wolfpacks.com/serviced.htm
    http://www.sitstay.com/store/clothing/service1.shtml
    I like this short explanation for those who might not understand:http://www.servicedogssavelives.org/whatareservicedogs.html

    Good luck!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Human psychology being what it is, you'll definately get less grief if you have a patch that says "Hearing Dog."  Deck the bag out and make it look official. 

    Good luck with Zhi's new career. :)  Dogs are such amazing creatures.
    • Puppy

    I have written about this in my book - its called companion dog training

    There are certain requirements of Companion Dog Program dogs and their owners. They have adopted these requirements since you and your dog may encounter a wide variety of ordinary situations while meeting other dogs and owners in public settings. Trained CDP teams can work in the park system, and as such, they must behave as calm and professional teams.

    There is a lot more to this than you may think - you dog will be tested before awarded the certification.

    I would do some homework and get a good idea of what involved before your commit yourselves.

    • Bronze

    Thank you for this thread discussion. this is very helpful for us to know about behavior of the dogs.