mastering the walk

Seems many confuse a dog walking nicely beside you with healing. I teach dogs that i don't care which side they walk on, that they can walk behind following if they want, or a few feet over to one side or the other. Just NEVER out front. If I ask them to "heal"... that means *right at my side*. If I'm just goofing off...they can run all over.

ORIGINAL: DPU


How come Spiritsdog's response isn't just common sense to dog owners.  Why does have to be repeated time and time again.

Because not all believe "treats" are the key to training. And some don't waste their time using clickers because they simply don't need them.

We have managed to keep this thread pretty civil up until now.  It's getting decidely less civil now.  I would appreciate a bit of editing in that last post......or, I can just do it myself.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

We have managed to keep this thread pretty civil up until now.  It's getting decidely less civil now.  I would appreciate a bit of editing in that last post......or, I can just do it myself.

Please point out which part of my post is "not civil" or that you just don't like.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

ORIGINAL: DPU


How come Spiritsdog's response isn't just common sense to dog owners.  Why does have to be repeated time and time again.

Because not all believe "treats" are the key to training.

True enough. Some use treats a lot in almost every aspect of training and/or living with a dog, some use them only for the initial teaching of the command rocess and then stop as soon as the dog understands what is expected of them. Some folks do not use treats at all.

Cesar has used them a few times on his show, but generally does not use them since he uses the relationship and a leadership principle with the rewards being stability, security, fulfillment, and balance. He does not usually teach any specific commands, just basic boundaries using social learning.

Although I use mostly a CM type philosophy, I do use treats for trick training and teaching specific commands. I don't phase them out completely with the trick training, but I do phase them out with commands as soon as the dog understands the command.

I also use them a bit in a classical conditioning sense, especially with fearful dogs. But very rarely and only with certain dogs.

It really depends upon personal choice, belief systems, and what you are trying to achieve with a given dog in a given moment. IMO

For those who don't have philosophical a problem using them, I recommend going to the clicker section to learn how to use and time them correctly for the greatest benefit.

edited to avoid taking bait

ORIGINAL: Angelique

You make some good points which I would like to discuss. Like Ron, I do love the mathematical breakdowns and logic...if only living beings with all of their variables could fit into this system outside of the lab more often. []

In the spirit of keeping the CM "stuff" and the clicker training (operant conditioning) areas free of debate on "when, where, how, and why", I was thinking of opening a thread in the "everything else" area of this forum.

This is not a linear discussion to me. It is multi-dimentional with many social variables.

Still looking forward to that new thread! []

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

edited to avoid taking bait

I wasn't baiting anyone, simply pointed out some facts. Fact; while even I might use treats for OBT if it works for that dog, I don't alwaus use them and I know trainers who never use them. Fact; I do not use or see a reason to use a clicker. I know other trainers who do not use clickers. Not because we "haven't caught on to them" but because we simply don't need them.

Now instead of  "editing" your post to "not take the bait" trying to suggest you were be baited in the first place...which you were not. Why not just ignore what I said if you didn't like it, or simply delete your post. You seem to try and make yourself the victim of all my post...your not.

Ok, my apologies to those of you who are able to have a discussion without issues, but this thread is closed. 

Shall we try this one again?

I would simply like to add this. I'm just glad to know that some people understand just how important walking is to a dog, and that they take the time to give their dogs something that they really need. Dogs should have their needs met every day, and that doesn't happen in a back yard.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

Dogs should have their needs met every day, and that doesn't happen in a back yard.

 
Indeed

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

.... Dogs should have their needs met every day, and that doesn't happen in a back yard.

Sorry to disagree but the backyard does meet my dogs daily exercise need.  There is no way I can ever mimic the pack's play, interaction, and movement on the walk.  Walks are necessary in establishing and maintaining leadership and boundaries which I have yet to master with one of my dogs...but not to forget the importance of a change of environment and the opportunity to train the dog as situations come up.
 
Please also respect that owners have different home situations.  I can do as CM does and take the dogs on a 2 hour leadership walk every day.  But that would mean I would have to cut down on the number of dogs I have and eliminate the fosters.  I feel I strike a good balance between me fostering and the pack's exercise need.

My dogs needs are met also, without daily walks.  I leave in the dark and come home in the dark and LIVE in an area that has NO light other than what comes from my home...we are deep in the boonies...streetlights don't exist.  Other houses are a long ways off...at least a mile....they get a rousing game of fetch or a run on the "play ground" we've set up with some agility stuff, morning and nite.  They get free play throughout the day and their weekend off lead romps without fail.  I won't take my dogs out in a blizzard or sub zero temps and expect them to run and play because frankly, they don't like being out there anymore than I do in that kind of weather.  I agree that they need a daily something, but I'm not sure that a walk is always the be all and end all.

ORIGINAL: DPU

Sorry to disagree but the backyard does meet my dogs daily exercise need.  There is no way I can ever mimic the pack's play, interaction, and movement on the walk.  Walks are necessary in establishing and maintaining leadership and boundaries which I have yet to master with one of my dogs...but not to forget the importance of a change of environment and the opportunity to train the dog as situations come up.

Please also respect that owners have different home situations.  I can do as CM does and take the dogs on a 2 hour leadership walk every day.  But that would mean I would have to cut down on the number of dogs I have and eliminate the fosters.  I feel I strike a good balance between me fostering and the pack's exercise need.

 
Oh dont get us wrong, the backyard helps a lot but there is a need for the dogs to move foward, the backyard is just another "room" of the house, just like when you feel "cabin fever" if you have been inside your house for a long time and not just going out to the backyard you will feel better
 
Dogs nature is to move foward, to "travel", to "migrate", backyards can be just a big kennel, just like if you go out to run a mile by running in circles around your backyard, they need to be in contact with the outside world
 
I'm sure you can take all your dogs out at the same time, maybe practicing in an open field first, everybody can do it, CM is not the strongest guy in a physical way and he can take more than 10 dogs out at the same time, is all about your attitude and your mind
 
I'm only saying this so you can see why we talk about taking the dogs out of the backyard is a good thing []