CM, his pack, and their relationship.

Lol...if you think the NUTRITION and behavior/training areas in general area don't have a lot of interesting discussions, their share of name calling and put downs, going waaaay afield from original topics, moderator step-in's, etc...wow...maybe you mean on a different forum?

I think maybe that area has tamed down since I joined. LOL! So far I haven't felt that anyone believes I'm ignorant or trying to kill my dogs for feeding home cooked. I willingly admit to mild spoiling as long as they eat nutritious diets, so haven't  had huge conflict.
 
Oh I just read the Iams Kills and see what you mean. No wonder I avoided that one before. Darned rain, I've got too much time on my hands.

I have just come to the conclusion that no matter what CM does, it's never good enough, just because he is who he is.
 
Stacita, I have a question about pack size, what would be the limit in your eyes?

For me the limit is four. It is the most dogs I can manage to keep an eye out for, call back if needed and still pick up poop as necessary. I also home cook which is time consuming and work full time. Most of my work is from home or three would be the limit for me and that's why I will occasionally foster but won't add another permanent resident. I also spend one-on-one time with my dogs every day. Some of that is for health reasons which could of course be delegated to a trained assistant or volunteer, but it does promote bonding.
 
Some people can obviously have more. I've seen people with six dogs and they all do marvelously. Floyd's foster mother let me have him because she was stretched too thin at five to keep him as a sixth dog. Some sled dog teams are very large, but there the dogs are quite similar with regard to physical ability. Is there less of a personal relationship? In my opinion yes. Would the dogs be happier if they had more personal attention? Probably if it also meant more sledding time.
 
When assistants are not properly supervising dogs, and the person in charge of training the assistants has delegated their care to the assistants, because no one person can do everything; then it is rather apparent the group is too large.

All of my dogs would much rather play/work/spend time with me than play/cuddle with each other.  I don't even know how you'd go about remembering the names of every one of 40+ dogs, let alone try to build a proper relationship with each and every one. Sure, it's great these dogs are alive and being cared for, but I just don't think being part of a mob is most dogs' idea of the perfect home. I don't think you can even call it a normal pack-- it's way too large for the dogs to form cohesive pack bonds.

What exactly does he need to do to establish a better relationship with his dogs?  Roll around and cuddle and baby talk, individually, with each one in his bed everynight? 

Satcita, I appreciate you saying I'm a far above average dog owner, but I work 9-5 and during that time, my dog stays home alone, inside sleeping all day.  I'm sure he'd be much happier and fulfilled running around outside with me for several hours and being with other dogs during that time.  I'm not completely guilt ridden about this, afterall, if I don't work, we don't eat and I feel he's adjusted to this lifestyle and accepts it like most dogs do.  But if I could provide the ideal lifestyle for my dog, it would be similar to what Cesar does for his dogs.  Now if only he fed raw, then it would be perfect!

What exactly does he need to do to establish a better relationship with his dogs? Roll around and cuddle and baby talk, individually, with each one in his bed everynight?

 
I don't think he can possibly have a relationship with each of his dogs. He has a relationship with a mob of dogs. The only way to build a relationship with a dog is to spend quality one-on-one time with each dog by itself.  A good game of fetch or a solo hike or just a few minutes of training, or for some dogs, yes, cuddling. Depends on the dog.

I'm sure he'd be much happier and fulfilled running around outside with me for several hours and being with other dogs during that time.

 
You could consider doggie daycare to fulfill more doggie needs or look for a compatible second dog, if your dog is a dog that enjoys the company of other dogs.

I stay at home with mine and they still prefer being inside and sleeping all day.  Unless I say, hey get off of your butts and let's go do something, they just snooze.

Evening is a different story.  They are ready to roll.

ORIGINAL: Trevell

What exactly does he need to do to establish a better relationship with his dogs?  Roll around and cuddle and baby talk, individually, with each one in his bed everynight? 

Satcita, I appreciate you saying I'm a far above average dog owner, but I work 9-5 and during that time, my dog stays home alone, inside sleeping all day.  I'm sure he'd be much happier and fulfilled running around outside with me for several hours and being with other dogs during that time.  I'm not completely guilt ridden about this, afterall, if I don't work, we don't eat and I feel he's adjusted to this lifestyle and accepts it like most dogs do.  But if I could provide the ideal lifestyle for my dog, it would be similar to what Cesar does for his dogs.  Now if only he fed raw, then it would be perfect!

I think it is arrogant for some to assume that a certain amount of dogs will not allow for a good relationship with a dog. One does not need to baby or cuddle with a dog to have good relationship, some breeds are more needy than other.
 
I ring in with 5, and I believe I have a good relationship with mine, I have more around at times because I board or foster.

I think it is arrogant for some to assume that a certain amount of dogs will not allow for a good relationship with a dog. One does not need to baby or cuddle with a dog to have good relationship, some breeds are more needy than other.

 
Webster's definition of arrogant: Offensively exagerrating one's own importance.
 
How does feeling that dogs need one on one time and that no one person can have an ideal relationship with 40+ dogs offensively exagerrate someone's own importance? Or are you just name calling because someone disagrees with you?

How does feeling that dogs need one on one time and that no one person can have an ideal relationship with 40+ dogs offensively exagerrate someone's own importance? Or are you just name calling because someone disagrees with you?

 
No, I believe you were of the opinion that 4 is enough, and if I remember correctly you made the statement that someone like CM was basically unable to have a good relationship with his dogs.....did you say decent....I don't remember, I didn't re-read everything.
 
By making that statement you were being somewhat arrogant with your opinion, because, you are not able to witness what happens there, and you are assuming based on your own opinion.

I think it is arrogant for some to assume that a certain amount of dogs will not allow for a good relationship with a dog. One does not need to baby or cuddle with a dog to have good relationship, some breeds are more needy than other.

But what is the relationship he has with the dog? I'm really asking. I have about 40 coworkers and I don't know most of their names and am on conversational terms with about 8 of them. I have been a daycare teacher with about 25 kids and I knew all their names but I did not have a relationship with all of them... I was bonded to maybe 6 or 7.
 
I don't think anyone here is saying you have to cuddle with a dog to have a relationship with him (I mean really, don't we know each other well enough by now...?). But I think as mudpuppy said a relationship involves some one-on-one quality time and attention to the individual, not just a large group.

I said that for me four was the limit. For some people a goldfish is the limit. I think we both know this. I also said that I've personally seen people do a marvelous job with six. Did you fail to read the second paragraph of that post before calling me arrogant? Sorry I don't personally know anyone with more dogs than that who does a great job of it.

I continue to believe that all dogs have the best environment with one-on-one time which is suited to their individual skills, physiology and personality. If you feel differently, go the the SPCA and tell them you'd like to adopt 40 dogs because you are sure that it is entirely possible to have an excellent relationship with each. You don't actually have to adopt 40--just let me know what they say.

I continue to believe that all dogs have the best environment with one-on-one time which is suited to their individual skills, physiology and personality. If you feel differently, go the the SPCA and tell them you'd like to adopt 40 dogs because you are sure that it is entirely possible to have an excellent relationship with each. You don't actually have to adopt 40--just let me know what they say.

 
 
Come on....do we have to get that silly, now?
 
Have they ever tried to shut him down, I mean the SPCA that is because, he is not delivering a one on one relationship? I give the man credit for what he does, if it means saving difficult dogs that have no future, and maybe they don't get to cuddle every night........who gives a crap?

I give the man credit for what he does, if it means saving difficult dogs that have no future, and maybe they don't get to cuddle every night........

 
It does seem like nit-picking, doesn't it?
 
CM is not allowed even the kudos for rescuing dogs because he has 35 to 40 of them?
 
Hmmm.....