No dog is too much for me......

In his book he says that there have been only two dogs he's been unable to help. I believe that With one of them he did make some progress but not enough to where he felt comfortable calling the dog "rehabilitated".

I don't have experience but Willow came after me twice when I first got her.  I still wonder what CM would have to say about her.

I don#%92t think this situation would be too much for CM but I believe he would phone it in.  I had a foster, Duke a flat coated retriever that would greet by submitting his belly and then squirt you with p (had a lot of pressure).  What a mess and a job to turn this around.  Think about it, where and how often do you greet your dog?  

ORIGINAL: Mastiff

Has Cesar ever met his match??  Will he??  I think the worst case he's had of dog vs. human aggression was that rescued dog "Boyfriend".  The episode where he went into the dog's kennel (of course no touch, no talk, no eye contact) and sat down with his back to the dog.  The owners were flabergasted the he even wanted to go in after what they told him.  The dog eventually came over after being totally ignored and CM was able to gain some sort of trust to take him for a walk. 

Would anybody here have the experience to do that or work with truly red zone dogs?  I think my body language would be a dead giveaway as to how scared I was and I'd be easy pickins' for that dog!![8|]

What type of dog behavior do you think would be "too much" for even the almighty Cesar??

Good thread.

There are no 100% absolutes. Cesar has admitted to his two hardest cases himself. What I admire about him is the fact that he still wants the dogs kept alive and even wants to start a sanctuary for these dogs to live out their lives in peace, companionship, and be studied for further knowledge.

He even wanted the two dogs who killed Diane Whipple (sp?) to be kept alive, worked with, rehabilitated, and/or studied. He is a true "lay-scientist" and lover of dogs in every sense, IMO.

Although this may not be a feisable or practicle option for many with the current state of our overpopulated shelters due to resources and man-power, it still falls into the realm of study and further knowledge and research of a dog who can teach us where we have gone wrong in our human approach or at least an understanding of where these extreme dogs end up.

ORIGINAL: willowchow

I don't have experience but Willow came after me twice when I first got her.  I still wonder what CM would have to say about her.

 
You should be very proud of what you've done with Willow!

I'm sure that, if he lives long enough, CM will surely come across dogs that are too much for him, or anyone.  I mean, if a shrink lives long enough, does he come across a Jeffrey Dahmer eventually? 
Fun to discuss this, but it's a crapshoot, and not necessarily based on skill level.  There are dogs born with screws loose - just depends on when, or if, you run across them, I suspect.

I sometimes wonder about dogs like that Jindo that he dealt with.  I think, my opinion that he was too much for him to handle just psychologically--he obviously was a lot more hysical with that dog than he is with others.

I don't think Cesar would stand a chance against Ogre.

Ogre doesn't respond to anything other than EXTREMELY gentle handling and complete respect and politeness. He also has ZERO desire to win the affections of a stranger. If Cesar came near OGre and sat down and ignored him, Ogre would ignore him right back.

All of the leash popping, etc...I leash popped Ogre once, the day I got him, before I knew better. He laid down in the middle of the sidewalk and refused to budge for a good 5 minutes. If I did any of the things that Cesar does to the dogs he works with to Ogre(and yes, I know what he does, I've read his book and seen many episodes of his show), I'd have a completely shut-down, basket case of a dog. Ogre just does. not. respond to harshness. At all.

If Cesar met Ogre, he would simply be ignored. Ogre doesn't see the need to please anybody but me...he won't even listen to my husband. He's an incredibly sensitive dog with a very serious sense of justice...and any type of force, or rudeness, or attitude will not earn you his respect. Cesar's whole attitude and demeanor would be met most likely with mild amusement and disdain from Ogre, and that's about it. I couldn't see Cesar, or his tactics, ever doing him any good whatsoever.

I have always wondered this but felt too stupid to ask.......what is leash popping?
 
I have never watched CM's show only when he was on Oprah so I have never heard this turn before

ORIGINAL: Ratsicles

I don't think Cesar would stand a chance against Ogre.

Ogre doesn't respond to anything other than EXTREMELY gentle handling and complete respect and politeness. He also has ZERO desire to win the affections of a stranger. If Cesar came near OGre and sat down and ignored him, Ogre would ignore him right back.

All of the leash popping, etc...I leash popped Ogre once, the day I got him, before I knew better. He laid down in the middle of the sidewalk and refused to budge for a good 5 minutes. If I did any of the things that Cesar does to the dogs he works with to Ogre(and yes, I know what he does, I've read his book and seen many episodes of his show), I'd have a completely shut-down, basket case of a dog. Ogre just does. not. respond to harshness. At all.

If Cesar met Ogre, he would simply be ignored. Ogre doesn't see the need to please anybody but me...he won't even listen to my husband. He's an incredibly sensitive dog with a very serious sense of justice...and any type of force, or rudeness, or attitude will not earn you his respect. Cesar's whole attitude and demeanor would be met most likely with mild amusement and disdain from Ogre, and that's about it. I couldn't see Cesar, or his tactics, ever doing him any good whatsoever.

I would say he can, that make us 1 and 1 [], since is almost sure that Cesar is never going to meet your dog then i think this thing is going to end up as a tie [], Cesar not just comes, does a leash pop to the dog and leaves, he studies the situation according to the dog's behavior, there is some times when he does not even have to touch the dog,  i know you have seen episodes when the owners were saying the same things you are saying right now and at the end was all different

He has being succesful with really aggressive dogs as the Jindo that Willow talks about to very fearful pitbulls that were even afraid to move, i think every other dog fits in between those 2 (including yours)

ORIGINAL: Raja19

I have always wondered this but felt too stupid to ask.......what is leash popping?

I have never watched CM's show only when he was on Oprah so I have never heard this turn before

Leash popping = leash correction

You can see him doing it in this video (at 36 seconds after the video starts)

[linkhttp://www.ifilm.com/video/2674825]http://www.ifilm.com/video/2674825[/link]

ORIGINAL: espencer

ORIGINAL: Raja19

I have always wondered this but felt too stupid to ask.......what is leash popping?

I have never watched CM's show only when he was on Oprah so I have never heard this turn before

Leash popping = leash correction

You can see him doing it in this video (at 36 seconds after the video starts)

[linkhttp://www.ifilm.com/video/2674825]http://www.ifilm.com/video/2674825[/link]

 
Oh okay...wouldn't that be the same thing as when a dog pulls to hard on a leash and you just pull them back a little??or is it only used in dogs that are aggresive? sorry this is OT

IMO, just pulling the dog back into a prefwerred position or restraining him is different from an actual correction, which I believe must start with a loose lead and then jerk and release to the side.... Timing is CRUCIAL or you end up correcting for the wrong thing, or correcting too late when a behaviour sequence has already started and is tough to stop.
 
Anyways, back to topic, in all of his career I am sure there has been more than 2 dogs Caesar hasn't helped - when he first started working with dogs there were probbaly quite a few and then as he solidified his ideas and worked them into a method, gained more experience and skill, the curve levelled out. Perhaps those 2 are the only 2 he has not been able to help since he reached his current "level". 
 
With the exposure he now has, anyone who truly believes he will not be able to help them (like Rats) won't even call him, so that means he is even less likely to "meet his match" and of itself is not an indicator of his level of skill.  He also must get HUNDREDS of calls a day and cannot possibly help every single one because there simply isn't enough time.  If I were in his position I would pick the ones I could definately help and the others I would refer to people I thought could handle the case.  I wonder who takes CMs referrals.......?
 
His greatest skill, IMO, lies in working with the people not the dogs, because it is the owners who must interact with their dogs day in day out and their success or failure that reflects on CM.  I suspect at the start of his career this skill with people was not nearly so well-honed, which resulted him not being able to help a number of dogs which must have been enormously frustrating for him.  Plus, he would definately meet his match if he came to my house - not in my dogs but in me!  I believe I am impervious to his "charm".[]
 
I admire anyone who can turn around even the most dangerous animal with the lightest touch possible..... and this is where CM is still levelling up IMO.  Someone else already noted that with some dogs he uses more force than with others and this (again only IMO) is a failure in itself. 

ORIGINAL: Mastiff

Would anybody here have the experience to do that or work with truly red zone dogs?  I think my body language would be a dead giveaway as to how scared I was and I'd be easy pickins' for that dog!![8|]

Once my rabbit bit me very hard on the knuckle when she felt I was ruining all the effort she'd put into redesigning her living space. It hurt a lot and she drew blood. Putting my hand back in that cage with an unpredicatable, enraged rabbit that seemed to think I was the stupidest, meanest animal alive was pretty hard and I didn't quite do it without a flinch, but it did the trick enough to get the message across to the rabbit that biting doesn't achieve anything. She hasn't bitten me since, at least.

Dogs, IMO, would be a lot harder, but probably more predictable, at least. []