Whats wrong with???

Nothing, in my opinion.

My only gripe with any training method is to question whether it's the BEST way to help the dog, not whether it is helping the dog. Lots of things help dogs, but not all of them are very nice. I prefer to exhaust all the nice ones first.

And then there's the question, of course, of whether what I think is the best truly is the best. All I can say is you've got to know your dog. Trainers aren't much help if their methods don't ring true to you as a loving owner.

Nothing at all. I have a lot of books on my shelf. I learn as much from Kilcommons or the Monks of New Skete or even The Koehler Method as I have from Jean Donaldson or Ian Dunbar. I think it's important to be really open to learning whatever you can from everybody.

...Instead of bashing people who don't agree with you repeatedly. And hurling insults at them and calling them names like "freak" and saying that what they are saying is not even worth responding to and even going so far as to openly laugh, for instance.

Is the point of this thread to point out your own closed-minded and aggressive behavior?

I definitely don't have any one trainer that is all I read or watch or enjoy. I have many - from trainers/behaviorists who have published material, to the couple of trainers I have attended classes with.
 
I don't think many people on this forum insist only one trainer is the be-all end-all.

ORIGINAL: fisher6000


...Instead of bashing people who don't agree with you repeatedly. And hurling insults at them and calling them names like "freak" and saying that what they are saying is not even worth responding to and even going so far as to openly laugh, for instance.

#1. Grow up. #2. You came into that thread and thought you'd be a wise*ss by pointing out the I spelled my handle a certain way, which if you looked around you'd notice it's what a lot of people do, but of course you already knew that, you just had nothing of value to add to the conversation. So that's what people like you do.

Is the point of this thread to point out your own closed-minded and aggressive behavior?

No, the point is exactly what was stated. But leave it to you to again, step in and show your true colors. Now everyone sees who you really are.

You never respond to the content of what I say, Awsomedog. Instead, you consistently tell me that I have nothing of value to say.

I don't treat you with the same total disrespect. I consistently respond to the content of your posts.

For example, I answered the question you posed above. In fact, I agreed with you. Often, you and I don't agree. Since you have asked me to "grow up," I feel like it's appropriate to mention here that here are a lot of adult strategies for disagreeing with someone. Adults often leave it alone, or "agree to disagree." Or, on internet forums, it is popular to debate the points of why you disagree. Adults who do this try to use the disagreement as a constructive learning experience. They listen to one another, and state their side and try to understand the other person's side, and usually everyone learns something new.

Is this what you mean when you say, "grow up?" Because I think that it's great advice and I wish that you would take it to heart. The only thing you are going to get if you keep up with the personal attacks is blocked by everyone except the small handful of posters who haven't been offended by you yet. And I can't imagine that you are doing all this posting just to hear yourself type.

This threads completely derailed so for once I feel not a twinge of guilt about posting OT.  I think this is a valuable post nonetheless and we would all do well to take something from it.  Here goes.
 
I recently discovered the "Block" button.  It's on the bottom of each member's posts to the left.  If they bother you, you can ignore them.  It's a very good facility.  Unfortunately you can still see blocked users when not signed in, but just sign in before browsing and that's not a problem.
 
The PM facility can be found in the same place.  If a post isn't about the original topic on discussion, you can stop the whole thing disintegrating into a discussion about forum etiquette by using this facility.  That way no one feels "ganged up on".  I'm purposely not doing this so everyone gets the benefit of this reminder.  And I'm sticking it here because this appears to be the most volatile section at the moment and one I will be avoiding for a while from now on until things calm down.
 
Unfortunately, in any forum you do get trouble makers and people who appear to want to pick fights and insult other people without contributing anything to the discussions.  I sincerely hope no one thinks I fall into this category.   If you respond to them you encourage them; if they don't get a response they will give up and play nice or go away.  Or to put it another way chances are they have not learned how to interact socially in a way that is appropriate and acceptable to others, it's not serious or dangerous, simply withdraw all attention and be consistent and the behaviour will extinguish.[]  Anyone got a mouthy pup that hasn't learned to play nice yet?  What do we tell owners of those pups to do...? And what are we doing here?  The opposite. 
 
I'm abandoning this section of the forum now and I may be gone for some time.... It's just got way too sour and there's a select few going around upsetting too many people, it's not enjoyable anymore.  I'm out.

If you respond to them you encourage them; if they don't get a response they will give up and play nice or go away.  Or to put it another way chances are they have not learned how to interact socially in a way that is appropriate and acceptable to others, it's not serious or dangerous, simply withdraw all attention and be consistent and the behaviour will extinguish.

I agree, Chuffy. The "handslapping" is definitely getting out of hand. There are tons of sarcastic remarks that would die on their own if we could resist the temptation to "tattle" or otherwise validate the remark. And there are many instances where something gets totally misunderstood or blown out of proportion.

There have been MANY times have have typed out a lengthy reply and then closed it. Before I hit the "OK" button I reread my post and ask myself if what I am posting meets my own personal criteria. #1 Does it clearly communicate what I want to say. #2 Is it even worth saying. (bottom of the list at #3 is spelling in case you hadn't noticed already [] )

I have been tempted to reply to some nasty remarks or "call out" someone for their obnoxious behavior but I just stop and tell myself that it's not my job. If someone wants to make a fool of themselves - they can do it without my help.

Chuffy and Jenhuedepohl:

Thank you. Point well taken. You're right, I've been wasting a lot of my own time.

I take bits of info from different trainers but not all of them. I don't presume to know The Truth about anything but at the same time I dislike moral relativism. I think there are several "right" ways to do most things but I also believe there is such a thing as a "wrong" way or ways.

ORIGINAL: fisher6000


Is the point of this thread to point out your own closed-minded and aggressive behavior?

What response did you expect after that statement.

To respond to the original post:  I think that there's nothing wrong with taking a bit of technique or philosophy from any trainer that one agrees with. 

What I do find pointless is becoming defensive rather than debating a point or at least trying to see more than one side of any given issue.  As was stated in the OP no one trainer is "the bible" for training.  I for one, would like to hear more about personal experiences in training from those who professionally train. 

For instance: do training methods change depending on how old the dog is, or how ingrained the behaviors have become?  Do methods change because of breed?  If there is a multi-dog household-how do you, the professional trainer, insure that dog on dog aggression does not happen? 

Which "tools from the tool box" did you use?  Did you change your philosophy according to the difficulty of the case?  If so how do you initially approach the behavior?

Personal experiences with one's own dogs or one's clientele aid more in understanding where each poster is coming from-not just which trainer(s) that they epitomize, but how they put those philosophies in action-right there at ground zero.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog
Whats wrong with believing that no one trainer owns the Bible of dogs? I mean...people make a lot of claims but, who's the *God* of training? The method of which helps a dog is the right method applied correctly for that dog. So tell me where I'm wrong.

I don't think you're wrong, but I do think that even though no one trainer knows it all or is the "God" of training, people have a right to be partial to trainers of whose methods they approve.  I mean, even if Ian Dunbar doesn't know everything, and I like Suzanne Clothier, or Terry Ryan, or whoever, as well, that probably still doesn't mean that I'm going to be partial to Koehler or Frawley.  And, it doesn't mean that, in the past, I haven't studied or even utilized some of their techniques.  My training style has evolved with my knowledge and experiences.  Others are at a different stage in their work with dogs. 

Now, since you asked to be told if you were wrong, I'd say the most that's wrong with you is your rather rude posting style.  fisher normally participates in discussions in a pretty scholarly, and not rude, way here, and if you haven't noticed that, perhaps you would have been better off lurking a bit longer.  You've known her for enough time to have posted here 300 times.  Many of us know her longer, and respect her honesty and thoughtfully considered opinions.  The fact that they may differ from yours and she doesn't let you off the intellectual hook does not give you the right to be rude in response.

Personal knowledge is a collection of tidbits gleaned both from others whom we respect who have done some gleaning of their own, our own personal observations, experiences, and rational over emotional thoughts and personal agendas, to reach the truth-based-facts and our own realities...
 
...or you can just read someone else's book and believe what ever makes you "feel" good.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs


I don't think you're wrong, but I do think that even though no one trainer knows it all or is the "God" of training, people have a right to be partial to trainers of whose methods they approve.  I mean, even if Ian Dunbar doesn't know everything, and I like Suzanne Clothier, or Terry Ryan, or whoever, as well, that probably still doesn't mean that I'm going to be partial to Koehler or Frawley.  And, it doesn't mean that, in the past, I haven't studied or even utilized some of their techniques.  My training style has evolved with my knowledge and experiences.  Others are at a different stage in their work with dogs.

How sad, you made a statement that made sense and something we could agree on, the you true colors claim out and you allowed you slip to show, with the following totally rude statement.

Now, since you asked to be told if you were wrong, I'd say the most that's wrong with you is your rather rude posting style.

You (while playing dumb) know that's not what Iwas asking. But sinse *you* decided to go there.   you are the pot screaming the kettles black. i've seen you be extremely rude to people here.

fisher normally participates in discussions in a pretty scholarly, and not rude, way here, and if you haven't noticed that, perhaps you would have been better off lurking a bit longer.

I don't need to lurk to spot rude behavior, like that of yours and fisher. And your compass for knowing what rude is must be way off. "fisher" was rude to me in her very first post. Now maybe you and her and some others think that because you've been here awhile, you own the place, and can therefore be the only ones allowed to be rude. But! from what I've seen the mods and admins run this place. So lets try climbing down from that high horse, miss "I can't say what i really feel over here". Your rude enough at times as it is, I'd hate to see what happens when the real you is set loose.

You've known her for enough time to have posted here 300 times.  Many of us know her longer, and respect her honesty and thoughtfully considered opinions.  The fact that they may differ from yours and she doesn't let you off the intellectual hook does not give you the right to be rude in response.

Hehe hehehe hahaha Bahahahaha bahahahaha wait for it BAHAHAHAHA LMAO "intellectual hook" wow another term for "just rude". People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.