Dog Community

Greater Swiss and Food Aggression show

Posted : 1/20/2007 11:15:11 AM

Last night I put on CM when I went to bed. Usually Fridays are reruns but his show last night had a Swissy with bowl aggression that I had never seen. I am especially interested in this episode because as you know, I own a Swissy and he was a HUGE resource guarder - especially food/bowl. It took us almost a year to stop his aggression over food. ANYWAY, I feel asleep!! Missed the whole episode. It looked like he was going to use his usual methods of taking control and I wanted to see how that worked out for everyone.

Anyone see it and can you comment? Was he successful? And what was his method and advise to the dog owners?

Awsomedog

Posted : 1/20/2007 11:26:49 AM

I enjoyed the show, have no problem with what he did, although I would have done somethings differently. I might have even taken this dog to work with for the simple reason (I don't think the owners can follow through). IMO.

Dave Hill

Posted : 1/20/2007 2:15:59 PM

NGC reruns them a bazillion times so I'm sure you'll get a chance to catch it. I was troubled by his approach---I'm no expert but it seemed contrary to everything I've read about resource guarding. Is it an issue of dominance or a lack of confidence? Most of what I've seen seems to indicate a lack of confidence---if that's true, the approach he used (stepping in and removing the dog from the food from time to time) might only serve to reinforce the dog's lack of confidence. Also, I didn't buy the idea that the dog was showing dominance as a puppy (as shown by the photos on the wall)---seems like a crummy source of evidence and I didn't think that dogs begin to test status until adolescence.

jones

Posted : 1/20/2007 2:24:30 PM

I watched it last night. He had the owners change their tone and posture of course. And he had the dog wear a choke chain collar & leash during mealtimes. He started out a short distance from the bowl and slowly moved closer, issuing leash pop corrections anytime the dog growling, lunged, or showed any other sign of getting too excited and fixated on the food. He made sure the dog was calm (lying down if necessary) before he was given the okay to eat. Once that was accomplished he had the owners come back while the dog was eating to touch him, and issued leash pop corrections for any growling/guarding. He also had the dog start pulling a cart on his walks.

I'm sure that Cesar would not recommend anyone try the above at home with consulting a professional of course.

Dave Hill

Posted : 1/20/2007 2:31:26 PM

At the end of the show he also mentioned that the owners were still struggling with the issue and he would be doing a follow up visit. You do have to respect the fact that the show was honest about the progress.

espencer

Posted : 1/20/2007 3:22:09 PM

ORIGINAL: silverserpher

Most of what I've seen seems to indicate a lack of confidence

I'm not trying to sound rude, im just curious, how food aggression and lack of confidence can be related? [8D]

Basically he told the owners that the dog should not even approach the food without their authorization first, that is from the moment they put the food in the cup, while they walk towards the bowl to put it in and untill they walk away from the bowl

I thought he was going to use the old "claim the bowl" technique but he didnt

Dave Hill

Posted : 1/20/2007 3:33:38 PM

I don't remember using the term "food aggression."[8|] That to me sounds like the dog coming over and stealing a sandwich from my hand. This dog was "resource guarding." That to me sounds like a dog that isn't confident that someone or something isn't going to come and steal the food from its bowl. Reaffirming that fear doesn't seem like a solution to the problem.

espencer

Posted : 1/20/2007 4:26:09 PM

ORIGINAL: silverserpher

I don't remember using the term "food aggression."[8|] That to me sounds like the dog coming over and stealing a sandwich from my hand. This dog was "resource guarding." That to me sounds like a dog that isn't confident that someone or something isn't going to come and steal the food from its bowl. Reaffirming that fear doesn't seem like a solution to the problem.

Well we had to be there to see what CM was asking to the owners, i'm sure he spent more than 10 minutes asking questions and that's how he ended up with that conclusion [

], they were not reafirming a fear, they were letting the dog know that kind of behavior was not accepted, if they were taking the bowl away maybe, but the food was not going anywhere

Dave Hill

Posted : 1/20/2007 5:08:42 PM

True. I can definitely agree with the decision to have the dog sit and stay before allowing access to the food. I just wonder if there isn't a better approach once you've released the dog to eat. At that point I think you'd want the dog to feel confident that the food isn't going anywhere---what kind of pack leader would step in and steal food from another member just to confirm status?

jones

Posted : 1/20/2007 8:17:39 PM

what kind of pack leader would step in and steal food from another member just to confirm status?

No pack leader would. All the behaviorists I've read, as well as anecdotal evidence from people with more than one dog, support the idea that resource guarding is not a status issue with dogs. The alpha dog is not allowed to take from "lower" dogs. The law of possession in the dog world is whoever has it owns it.

espencer

Posted : 1/20/2007 8:27:52 PM

ORIGINAL: jones

what kind of pack leader would step in and steal food from another member just to confirm status?

No pack leader would. All the behaviorists I've read, as well as anecdotal evidence from people with more than one dog, support the idea that resource guarding is not a status issue with dogs. The alpha dog is not allowed to take from "lower" dogs. The law of possession in the dog world is whoever has it owns it.

Well since no body was stealing the food from anybody i think we are fine [

]

spiritdogs

Posted : 1/20/2007 8:52:10 PM

Just FYI, in case of any confusion over the semantics, food aggression is the same as resource guarding - the resource being the food. But, dogs can certainly guard other resources - like toys, their owners, or space.

Dave Hill

Posted : 1/20/2007 9:50:14 PM

ORIGINAL: espencer

ORIGINAL: jones

what kind of pack leader would step in and steal food from another member just to confirm status?

No pack leader would. All the behaviorists I've read, as well as anecdotal evidence from people with more than one dog, support the idea that resource guarding is not a status issue with dogs. The alpha dog is not allowed to take from "lower" dogs. The law of possession in the dog world is whoever has it owns it.

Well since no body was stealing the food from anybody i think we are fine []

Somehow this whole thread feels like a matter of semantics. What kind of pack leader would step in and separate another member from its food just to confirm status?

TinaK

Posted : 1/20/2007 10:13:01 PM

I'm not trying to sound rude, im just curious, how food aggression and lack of confidence can be related?

A more confident dog can have an object, a bone, far away from him and still be able to keep other dogs away from it. Less confident dogs need their bones right in front of them, or right in their mouths... So, a less confident dog might start growling at a first sign that you are moving forward - "Does he want my bone? No! Grrrr..."

espencer

Posted : 1/20/2007 11:00:03 PM

ORIGINAL: silverserpher

Somehow this whole thread feels like a matter of semantics. What kind of pack leader would step in and separate another member from its food just to confirm status?

What kind of pack leader uses treats to make the followers do something? what kind of pack leader uses leashes? are those two things wrong? of course not

Let's say that no pack leader in this world separates another member from its food just to confirm status, did help the dog with his problem? yes, was the dog hurt? no, did help the owners to avoid being bitten in the future? yes

Tell me one part of the technique that made the dog being in a worse situation than the one he was before, is the dog more relaxed now that does not feel he has to be aggressive? yes, are the owners more relaxed not knowing they are not going to be bitten? yes

Whats there to complain about? they need to remove the dog from the food to keep the training, they are not going to wait till dinner when the dog is hungry again to continue and just doing it one time because "they cant take him away from the food" [

]