who does the Discipline, exercise, and affection

ORIGINAL: houndlove

Well look, if you're going to claim you train dogs "naturalistically" and "based on thier canine instincts" then you'd better have some documentation of what "natural" and "instinctual" is for a dog.

Lots of people are in a career for 25+ years and still don't know what they're doing. I've observed veteran teachers, 30+ years, who are completely clueless as to the science and art of teaching and learning.

I'm not here to right a book on what I've studied over a couple of decades, and if people need that info it's up to them to reseach it,

 

I've also observed teachers who've only been at it for a couple years and are clearly both gifted and dedicated to learning everythign they can about what science says about how to be the most effective teacher you can be. Age and experience has nothing to do with it.

I do believe that's the funniest and silliest thing I ever read. ROTFLMAO And while I hear that claim being made all the time *over the internet* I've yet to see it proved imperson. so sorry but that dog don't hunt.

ORIGINAL: corvus


But moot, seeing as it was you who said words are a waste of energy and I was simply refuting that, with the example of my dog and the way she understood and responded to each word or phrase in my example. My dog is largely voice-trained because I talk to her a lot when we're doing things together. I find it very handy to teach her what a lot of phrases and words mean so I can tell her what we're doing when she's not watching me. It's nice when she's 10 metres ahead of me and approaching a road and I can say "Penny, stop there." and she stops, and then I can say "wait for me" and she waits. She only understands her name, stop, and wait, but she can pick those words out of a sentence and respond accordingly. Whether she responds to tone or the words themselves doesn't mean much, because when I say "stop?" it means something different to humans than "stop" does. Means something different to dogs, too. Just like when I say "Penny" in a flat tone means something different to my dog than when I say "Penny!" in an excited tone, or "PENNY!" in a growly tone. I didn't say she had a grasp of human language either, but I did say words were not a waste of energy on her, and I think I've proven that through example.

I stand by what i said, and see no point in saying it over.

  spiritdogs

I can certainly agree with a lot of what you said. Not all, but a lot.

ORIGINAL: corvus


I also feel like this walking in front thing is dubious at best and quite possibly a load of bollocks.

And that's your right.

What is NILIF?  I may have missed the meaning in a post along the way.
Anyway...my response to the original question is gonna have to be affection,
exercise and boundaries. 
Thats what works for me and thats what matters.  When it stops working I may need to change.  He was a breeze to potty train, has never chewed on furniture or shoes, not a barker, not aggressive, follows commands....he's cool! 
 

ORIGINAL: jode88

What is NILIF? 

Nothing in life is free.

Practicing "nothing in life is free" effectively and gently communicates to your dog that its position in the hierarchy is subordinate to yours. From your dog's point of view, children also have a place in this hierarchy. Because children are small and can get down on the dog's level to play, dogs often consider them to be playmates, rather than superiors. With the supervision of an adult, it's a good idea to encourage children in the household (aged eight and over) to also practice "nothing in life is free" with your dog.
K9deb has a wonderful outline of the training method.  It is very easy and can become a way of life.  I was strict with it when my dog was a young pain in the butt.  But now he knows the rule and has matured and has a been trained we follow it as a daily regimen.  For example he will always sit before being fed and have to give me something in return for toys or play, like he may be asked to speak or give paw.
Here is a site that will help you understand. http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

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I do believe that's the funniest and silliest thing I ever read. ROTFLMAO And while I hear that claim being made all the time *over the internet* I've yet to see it proved imperson. so sorry but that dog don't hunt.

 
Well then nothing I'll be able to say *over the internet* will change your mind, as per usual. Sooooo. Go and get an advanced degree in education, then go spend some time observing in schools. While it is more rare to find young teachers who are really instinctively gifted, it is disturbingly common to find 30 year veterans who are absolutely terrible teachers. Why? Because they never grew, they never learned from their mistakes, they got set in their ways and no amount of evidence that what they were doing was inneffective would make them change. So you wind up with teachers like the woman who was my assigned mentor in graduate school: 30-year veteran, nice woman, bored the ever-loving pants off of every single one of her students, and didn't teach them history so much as how to shut up and stare blankly. She was still back in the mode of "If you kids are quiet at all times, you are a good teacher" from 30 years ago. So keeping the kids quiet and sitting in their straight rows became much more important to her than actually teaching them anything.

I think it's ridiculous to assume that there is no inherent, special talent in people for particular tasks. I thought that was common knowledge. That's what helps people choose careers, no? Correct me if I took that comment in the wrong light, Awesomedog.

You know what, Cressida, it's disturbingly easy to find dog trainers that claim 30+ years experience and still seem helpless to LEARN from the dogs themselves, let alone other people also working with dogs and achieving great things.

ORIGINAL: houndlove
Well then nothing I'll be able to say *over the internet* will change your mind, as per usual. Sooooo. Go and get an advanced degree in education, then go spend some time observing in schools.

Thanks for proving my point that some of you are more guilty than others at taking shots and just simply being insulting. you have no clue as to what my education is. Also don't feel like you have the right to tell me what I should and shouldn't do, that's not your place or right.

While it is more rare to find young teachers who are really instinctively gifted, it is disturbingly common to find 30 year veterans who are absolutely terrible teachers. Why? Because they never grew, they never learned from their mistakes, they got set in their ways and no amount of evidence that what they were doing was inneffective would make them change. So you wind up with teachers like the woman who was my assigned mentor in graduate school: 30-year veteran, nice woman, bored the ever-loving pants off of every single one of her students, and didn't teach them history so much as how to shut up and stare blankly. She was still back in the mode of "If you kids are quiet at all times, you are a good teacher" from 30 years ago. So keeping the kids quiet and sitting in their straight rows became much more important to her than actually teaching them anything.

Yeah yeah yeah blah blah blah, again you have no clue as to what I study, and what I keep up with. I can promiss it's more than you. I just have the ability to see truth from far fetched guesses.

Your post reeks of bad attitude, so popint that finger in a mirror towards yourself.

ORIGINAL: corvus

I think it's ridiculous to assume that there is no inherent, special talent in people for particular tasks. I thought that was common knowledge. That's what helps people choose careers, no? Correct me if I took that comment in the wrong light, Awesomedog.

Actually i think i agree with that.

You know what, Cressida, it's disturbingly easy to find dog trainers that claim 30+ years experience and still seem helpless to LEARN from the dogs themselves, let alone other people also working with dogs and achieving great things.

Nice how you follow up with a insult. As I see it, it's the other way around.