Caesar and Mouthing.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

if you want all points of view, not just CM's, you'll need to post in the regular training section of the board.

Good idea Spiritdogs! 


Wolfdog,

If you will read the rules at the top of this forum, this is not really the area to discuss and compare all methods available to you. 

There may be some tips given in the other forum (where everyone can participate) which will help until you can get someone to come out in person.

I've already given my recommendation.

I've never seen CM talk about puppy mouthing, but I have a feeling he wouldn't use a "claw" on a pup. I had the same problem with my pup up till he was 8 mo., and I also wondered what would CM do.

 
Well, I don't think it's a good idea either but I saw it with my own eyes. They were stated to be puppies and he specifically recommended the "claw" and "pinning" or "holding" them down.
 

jones - Are you sure????  Even if they were mixes, advertising this as part of a viable solution for a fast heavy growing breed prone to hip and elbow dysplasia is a bit iffy - really, I don't mean to sound rude or anything but are you doubly sure you got that bit right?  Me, I'd say 20 mins for a dog of this age and type, and even then I'd split it into two or three sessions a day, with short bursts of free play on a suitable surface on top of that.

Anyhow, I digress.  Sorry.  Back to topic.  Did Cesar mention any good teething remedies as part of his cure?  Rotties and Rottie mixes are oh-so-notorious for this problem, its a whatchamacallit, a breed trait.  It can be helped a great deal by freezing some of their chews and toys, some well timed "time outs" and teaching a desirable behaviour to replace the old one.  I've never heard of this "claw" technique to teach puppies appropriate chewing/mouthing habits before.....

 
I am absolutely positive he recommended 40 min a day of walking on leash. I can't say I'm 100% sure it was all in one walk - I am maybe 90% sure of that part []. I thought it said "a 40 minute walk" but it's possible it was something like "40 minutes of walking." I literally watched the segment and then walked to my computer and posted so it was fresh in my mind at the time.
 
He didn't mention any kind of teething remedy or the issue of teething in any way.

If it's the episode I'm thinking of where two women found the rottie (mixes?) on the side of the road...these were young dogs, but they were big enough and already acting bossy and ushy enough with the owners to cause harm.

They were very out of control. 

Best if someone can dig up the episode (yo spence!) so people can see for themselves that these "puppies" were not little tiny "babies".

Second hand information based on "I saw this or that" leaves too much to the imagination. Best to view first hand as everyone seems to "see" things differently.

Or is this an episode I missed?

More (acurate) information regarding which episode we are discussing, would be helpful. []

ORIGINAL: TinaK



Does he simply want to play? Then without pushing him away with your hands, turn your body on her blocking his attempts to bite. If he jumps on you, with your elbow calmly push him away. Redirect his playfulness to one of the toys he could chase or shake. (Redirecting to a chew doesn't work for me when my pup is 'full of beans'.)


My final suggestion is that you should not associate grabbing of his collar with any negative consequence - "Crating". Touching a dominant dog by its neck is quiet symbolic as is. No need to condition your dog to hate you doing that. You never know when a vet will need to touch him there...

Yeah, we think he wants to play, because then he starts running around the furniture, but something that concerns me is that sometimes, he'll make short growllike sounds as hes running. And he loves being chased
 
 
 
And I'd have to drag him by collar to the crate like you said, and he's only sensitive about being touched there when hes mouthing or running around all excited.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

ORIGINAL: WolfDog

Hmm... one problem with that. We used to give him time outs whenever he mouthed, so he doesnt let me touch his neck when hes mouthing.

Just curious - what do time outs have to do with touching his neck?  How did you give him the time outs?

 
I would have to drag him to his crate by the collar, like the local trainer said so (but now i'm beginning to doubt her ability...)

ORIGINAL: Angelique

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

if you want all points of view, not just CM's, you'll need to post in the regular training section of the board.

Good idea Spiritdogs! 


Wolfdog,

If you will read the rules at the top of this forum, this is not really the area to discuss and compare all methods available to you. 

There may be some tips given in the other forum (where everyone can participate) which will help until you can get someone to come out in person.

I've already given my recommendation.

 
I already tried that, if you look in problems and habits, you might find a thread called "sibe mouthing". We tried the bitter apple thing, it sort of worked i guess, just now he doesn't mouth when casual, only when he's doin the puppy crazies (I thought he wouldve outgrew them by now...)
 
 
 
On a side note, he gets a lot of exercise now, I got a really big tie out and we run around out there.

I know i've been replying to my own posts alot now, but forgot to say, I really hope he doesn't have an unstable temperament.
 
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but dogs that do, often end up being put down.

Silly me, I thought this forum was for discussing Cesar Millan including episodes of his show that we have seen.
 
I never portrayed the Rott pups as "tiny babies." To me a "young dog" is 1-2 years old. The Rotts were puppies, referred to as puppies by the voiceover, by the owners, by Cesar himself. As I stated, *to me* they appeared to be about 16 weeks old. I would be very surprised if they were a day over 6 months old. What I observed was normal puppy behavior. Of course, Rottweiler puppies are not terribly small even at 16 weeks. I did not see them do any harm... they were shown mostly grabbing the sleeves of their owner and mouthing their hands/arms and as far as I know from the show they didn't ever actually bite anyone. I can only comment on the show. I never the met the dogs.

Wolfdog,
 
If you will send me a PM detailing everything about your situation, yourself, your dog, and what you've tried so far, I will try to help you.
 
 
Jones,
 
You are not "silly". [8D]
 
In order to make allowances for the "lurkers" who may read these threads and those who wish to participate in the discussion, we need to have a common point of reference and realise these dogs were past the "baby" stage of puppyhood.
 
Yes, we are talking about the same episode. These dogs were at about the 40 lb weight, very mouthy, and very pushy with a couple of owners who were clearly in over their heads.
 
Good episode on how fast cute pups grow into youngsters who are losing their cuteness in a big hurry. []
 
 
Espencer,
 
If you are out there (Oh, I can hear you breathing!) is there any chance you can find this episode for us and post a link? []
 
 

Not only should one pay close attention to his show, but they should certainly do so if they're going to comment on it. They should also understand that they are seeing approx 20 min of a three hour show. Which means they are not getting *all* the info that the owners that are there for the sessions are receiving. To me, it's one thing to disagree with his methods, it's quite another to bash him, and those that do so, IMHO can't grasp or do what he does, or it could just be an ego problem.

Example; while I disagree with his use of the shock collar in one of the episodes, I don't bash nor have negative feelings towards him. #1. I wasn't there and don't know "exactly" what took place. #2. The dog wasn't actually harmed. And, did he in fact use the shock, on the vibrate mode? And just like while I disagreed with a PhD behaviorist having someone chain their dog to a tree while she walked her dog around it, I not only didn't feel the need to bash her, I didn't feel the need to mention her by name either.

ORIGINAL: WolfDog
I would have to drag him to his crate by the collar, like the local trainer said so (but now i'm beginning to doubt her ability...)

Well this is where I'd start to address the problem you are experiencing...I'm not pro-anyone and haven't seen CM's shows but this really strikes me...
 
I'd first be looking for a new "trainer".
You should not be "dragging" your dog to the crate by it's collar. Not knowing the reason you're dragging but I'll "assume" it's to put your dog in it's crate for something thats been done wrong, please correct me if I'm wrong.
The crate should not be used for "time-outs" or punishment. It should be an area your dog associates with as comfort and rest never for punishment.
I am a strong supporter of many methods and it sounds like as suggested above that you need more professional help with someone who can asses your dogs behavior to help you both.
 
I have found through my own dogs that diverting the bad/unwanted behavior and working the dog in training exercises to make them think and then rewarding the good/wanted behavior has worked well for me. Of course a mouthy dog is not pleasureable and in most cases bitter apple doesn't seem to work as well as it should.
 
If you are not punishing your dog with the crate for bad behavior and simply want it to go in the crate because your going to work, bed, the store, eat dinner, what have you then I'd suggest you teaching your dog the crate is a good place by making it a fun place and getting there is also fun. I can't begin to tell you how important that is.
 
My daughter, although she won't admit it, is constantly fighting what I do, to do things "her way" and not what works for the individual dog...that IMO is more key then whose way is the right way in my life and my dogs []
 
I just wish others could see that too
 

Hey i remember that rottie episode because the owners were two latin ladies and i always thought it was funny that them and Cesar knew spanish and could make the episode that way too []
 
Yeah the dogs were not that small and they were having free will, unfortunately i dont think i have even seen a clip in the web about that episode so we will have to talk about it only by memory
 
One thing that works for me (and i assume that he mouths your hands or arms while you are seated and he does not do anything while you are standing because he does not reach you) is stretch your leg and use it as a personal space device, the lenght of your leg is your personal space, the dog will try to go around your leg to get closer to you again but after 4 or 5 tries he will get that you dont want to play, let me know if he starts to bite your shoe [] (at least is not as painful and for him not as fun as a hand, easier to get bored with)

ORIGINAL: Angelique

Espencer,

If you are out there (Oh, I can hear you breathing!) is there any chance you can find this episode for us and post a link? []

 
No! there is probably no disclaimer on it and may have the potential to harm dogs.

I just think it's odd that anytime anyone praises an episode, their interpretation of the show is not questioned. But when someone contests something from the show (which I barely did... I think the real problem is pinning puppies kind of speaks for itself) they must have mis-heard, mis-observed, and misunderstood it. Clearly we cannot trust that person's eyewitness account and we can't discuss it until we've all seen it.
 
I'm getting frustrated with the gag order on Cesar Millan. We can't discuss him outside this area, and we can't discuss him inside unless we have nothing but nice things to say. I don't get the point of a discussion without differing points of views. I'm trying to take a careful, non-reactionary look at some of his methods and shows. I don't think I have "bashed" him in this thread at all, or in the CM/Fear thread, but I get shushed for rather discreetly ointing to a problem with his handling of two specific dogs.
 
By the way I would agree the pups were probably around 40lbs. I think a 4-5mo old Rottie mix (probably w GSD) could easily be that weight & size. Just because a puppy is big doesn't mean it gets treated like a young adult. You don't stick a 10yo kid in high school basketball just because he's tall.

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: Angelique

Espencer,

If you are out there (Oh, I can hear you breathing!) is there any chance you can find this episode for us and post a link? []

No! there is probably no disclaimer on it and may have the potential to harm dogs.

 
Oh no! It's the people are stupid arguement again! [8D]
 
Better yet, don't own a dog because they have the potential to harm people. Or maybe Breed Specific Legislation will stop people from owning certain breeds, and that will stop all of the problems?
 
I don't think so. []