Dog Whisperer Season 3

ORIGINAL: corvus

ORIGINAL: Trevell

I was a little dissapointed with the closing of my original thread at first.  I was really hoping to generate some interesting discussion on different training techniques from people who agree and disagree with Cesar's methods.  I like to take in different points of view, learn, and decide for myself what's best for my dog or any dog I may meet in the future.  It's too bad that discussion can't take place without the snide remarks and sarcastic comments certain people can't help themselves from making whenever CM is brought up.

Well, I guess I'm mostly a +R person and I feel pretty strongly that I don't want to frighten or distress my dog during training if I can possibly avoid it. I also keep a very open mind when it comes to other training methods, because dogs are all different and sometimes my preferred method might not work so well. So even though I don't have access to the new season of DW, if people explain in a little detail what they saw and what they wish to discuss, I can still contribute, maybe. []

Cool corvus.  That was my intention for the first thread.  
(Off topic)Your dog has the EXACT same face as my first dog Sandy, except her ears didn't stick up.  Body looks similar as well except my dog was golden all over.  I miss that dog...

I apologize because we don't have cable and I haven't seen the show. I read this before and didn't comment because a) it wasn't clear before and I hadn't seen the episode myself and b) I couldn't figure out exactly what it was bothered me about this. This was MUCH clearer, assuming this is described correctly:

I was also intrigued with how CM handled an aggressive ACD - he used a tennis racquet to keep himself safe and then went into the dog's house with the racquet - the dog took out his frustration on the racquet and finally gave up the aggression.

I had a dog that was aggressive under certain circumstances - if people she wasn't 100% familiar with grabbed her collar, was one of the circumstances. We played flyball, and for warmups she had to be held at the box by a teammate while I ran down the lane to call her to the runback area. She discovered she could scare the person holding her, into letting her go, if she turned and bit their hands. This was a problem until a teammate brought welder's gloves and just held on to her. She nailed him over an over, then finally gave up.

Here's the problem, though. It only worked for him! Each teammate had to go through the same routine, to be able to handle her.

I wonder about the tennis racquet deal. What do you think?

I was impressed with his "training" of Holli's (the injured dog) humans. He did a great job explaining how dogs communicate with each other. He's right on with the body language and is perfect at mimmicking a dogs head movements.

and is perfect at mimmicking a dogs head movements.

 
I know this sounds totally ridiculous, but Cesar's immitations of dog's body language and state of minds is becoming one of my favorite parts of the show!  You can really see what he's talking about in a much clearer light when he does those dog immitations!  Goofy, but interesting. 

I love it when he does the "excited" dog imitation, lol. He's perfect for it and does seem to be able to get the owners to "see" what their dog is trying to "say".

Oh to be a child again and think in simple terms!!

 
Some people say I am still there.
[]

It would not surprise me that he knows how to move and act like a dog, considering that he has been around lots of them for pretty much all of his life and was observing them before most books were written about them.
 
I commented about philosophy in replying to Angelique but I meant to add something else. Though I don't use many if any of his specific methods and actually learned the scruff from a husky source, I appreciate most his keen powers of observation and his philosophy, which is what I would most consider using from his show. As he points out, it's not the leash, it's the attitude. This I take to mean that the proper attitude is what matters, whether you say "shhh" or "superfragilisticexpiliadocious" is picking nits. In harness, I can make Shadow sit, since I'm not using leash pops or remote collar, because of my attitude, in that I will expect obedience. So, success with that other equipment also is not dependent soley on that other equipment but on my understanding of its proper use and limitations and on my behavior and expectations. And that is, IMO, a CMism to the nth degree.
 
He picked up a racket. It could have been a broom or scooper for all that matters. The idea was to block access while engaging in wrong behavior until the wrong behavior has ceased. Good behavior gets rewarded by returning to the pack, a positive reinforcement, as strong as any treat.
 

ORIGINAL: ron2

It would not surprise me that he knows how to move and act like a dog, considering that he has been around lots of them for pretty much all of his life and was observing them before most books were written about them.
 

 
This is what I enjoy most about the show. If you really ay attention to everything Cesar does - how he doesn't talk to the dogs, how and when he uses a look, his attitude, his calmness even when a dog is out of control or fearful, his body posture, when he doesn't focus on the dog, how he is sets a boundary, etc...there is a lot going on.
 

Original: Ron2
 
I commented about philosophy in replying to Angelique but I meant to add something else. Though I don't use many if any of his specific methods and actually learned the scruff from a husky source, I appreciate most his keen powers of observation and his philosophy, which is what I would most consider using from his show. As he points out, it's not the leash, it's the attitude. This I take to mean that the proper attitude is what matters, whether you say "shhh" or "superfragilisticexpiliadocious" is picking nits. In harness, I can make Shadow sit, since I'm not using leash pops or remote collar, because of my attitude, in that I will expect obedience. So, success with that other equipment also is not dependent soley on that other equipment but on my understanding of its proper use and limitations and on my behavior and expectations. And that is, IMO, a CMism to the nth degree.

He picked up a racket. It could have been a broom or scooper for all that matters. The idea was to block access while engaging in wrong behavior until the wrong behavior has ceased. Good behavior gets rewarded by returning to the pack, a positive reinforcement, as strong as any treat.

 
Yes! You are defining the "social" reward. We can also give a dog the reward of feeling safe and allowing them to relax when we make decisions and direct their activities as their trusted leader in social situations.
 
Setting boundaries and communicating what is and is not roper social behavior can easily be done with a boundary word, a body block, eye contact, touch, and attitude. You don't have to "train" a dog with a specific command to set a boundary.
 
I've seen a lot of videos by the Horse Whisperer, Monty Roberts. He also sets up a social relationship with a horse before he "trains" it. He moves the horse away from him in a circular pen until the horse gives him signals it is ready to "join-up" with him.
 
 
 
 

Here's the problem, though. It only worked for him! Each teammate had to go through the same routine, to be able to handle her.

I wonder about the tennis racquet deal. What do you think?

 
They kind of joked about that and said they would have to get tennis racquets for all of their friends or just leave 1 by the mailbox.
 
I've enjoyed this season so far.  He is branching out into different situations.  The "mastering the walk" to solve everyone's problem was getting a little repetitious.

Here's the problem, though. It only worked for him! Each teammate had to go through the same routine, to be able to handle her.

I wonder about the tennis racquet deal. What do you think?

I kind of wondered the same thing. But after thinking more about that segment, I realized how it wasn't the raquet itself that stopped the dog, it was the attitude that the person who was holding the raquet assumed. The raquet was there to prevent a bite, but primarily to give the person holding it confindence to stand up to the dog and claim that territory. I think if someone walked up to that yard with the same confidence and no raquet, they would have the same results. Especially if the family made sure to explain this to visitors.

Like, most of the time, my dog can ignore the cats, even will back off from them when they decide that they are going to take that spot on the chair. But if they are running away from her, it's "Game on!"

The racquet thing reminds me of when I did work experience in high school for our local animal park. They had mostly native animals and while I was allowed to go into most of the enclosures, including the dingo enclosure, I wasn't allowed in the Tasmanian Devil enclosure. When they fed the devil, she'd come tearing out and jump up and down like a little terrier, trying to get the bone they had for her as fast as possible. She was also quite unpredictable and would sometimes rush people when they were trying to clean her enclosure. So anyone who went in there went in with a plastic lawn rake. If she came over, they would simply hold the rake in front of their legs as a barrier. It was especially mandatory when they fed her so they wouldn't get their legs scratched to pieces when she jumped up and down trying to get to the food.

I know it's a completely different situation, but I guess I think it has some common ground with this dog story because the rake and the racquet served the exact same purposes. The devil pretty much ignored the rake and never tried to attack it or even look at it. I assume it meant nothing to her but something she put her feet on when she was trying to climb someone's leg. Could the racquet be similarly overloooked by the dog?

think if someone walked up to that yard with the same confidence and no raquet, they would have the same results

 
CM could do it without a racquet, as he did with a min-pin. But some have said that when does that, he's just teaching people how to get bit. Anyway, he was showing the humans, what they could do to avoid a bite by using an object as a barrier. A racquet happened to be handy. But your understanding is the same. It's not the equipment but the attitude.
 

Whatever! I am a huge fan of CM as I have used his methods on my Shelties and they always work. I just think he has a wonderful gift and thankful that he is so willing to share it with us who are interested in learning.

While some humans may not get or understand what he does...one things for sure...all the dogs do. LOL

While some humans may not get or understand what he does...one things for sure...all the dogs do. LOL

Exactly! Dogs don't lie.

People like to bash Cesar because of the someone watches his show and don't understand their own limitations and what he is trying to teach. But that's like saying Norm is a bad carpenter because someone ruined their bathroom after watching an episode of This Old House. []