UPDATED: Reactive or Agressive dogs in Beginner Agility!

ORIGINAL: JM

I am pretty sure the OP is not going to wait for 2 dogs to be surrounding/nipping hers before picking it up.

 
Speculations cause accidents []
 
 

ORIGINAL: JM

2 prey driven dogs can make mincemeat out of a small dog in a matter of seconds.

 
Along with your arms and hands if you pick up the dog
 
 

ORIGINAL: JM

Best to pick it up and get it to a safe area at the first sign of trouble.
 

 
And that sign would be?
 
 

ORIGINAL: JM

2 prey driven dogs can make mincemeat out of a small dog in a matter of seconds.

"Along with your arms and hands if you pick up the dog"





Personally, I'd rather have torn up arms then a dead dog.  You can fix arms, you cannot fix death.

And yet you advocate using your hands arms with/during the body block.

No one in their right freeking mind is going to allow 2 prey driven larger dogs to surround/nip their little dog, just so they can practice body blocking....or even to prove that body blocking will work.

That is putting the poor little thing in "bait" status.

Get a grip. No one is willing to take a chance like that with their dog. You pick the thing up even if there is a slight possibility of the dogs coming near it.

Along with your arms and hands if you pick up the dog

#1 I will keep Harley far far away from the other dogs.
#2 I will speak with the owner/handlers of the other dogs and politely ask them to keep a good distance between their dog and mine.
#3 I already informed the instructor and she said she will tell them to keep space away from all the other dogs.
#4 If I feel the slightest bit that Harley could be in trouble I will pick him up unless there is not time, in which case I will block him and tell the other dog Leave It in a loud voice.

ORIGINAL: JM

And yet you advocate using your hands arms with/during the body block.

No one in their right freeking mind is going to allow 2 prey driven larger dogs to surround/nip their little dog, just so they can practice body blocking....or even to prove that body blocking will work.

That is putting the poor little thing in "bait" status.

Get a grip. No one is willing to take a chance like that with their dog. You pick the thing up even if there is a slight possibility of the dogs coming near it.

Can you quote me the part where i said use your hands to do a body block? i remember i said in case is carrying an umbrella or a stick

Here is a webpage where you can find the nearest hospital so people can go and get their arms cured [] [linkhttp://www.revolutionhealth.com]http://www.revolutionhealth.com[/link], and this one so people can find a psychologist to help them with the trauma of being attacked by dogs [linkhttp://www.alijor.com]http://www.alijor.com[/link]

No kidding, JM! Sheesh.

If two dogs were coming to attack an infant, I'd pick it up.  If two dogs were coming to attack my cat, I'd pick it up.  If two dogs were coming to attack my dog...well, I can't pick her up but you betcha I'd hit them with a stick!!  If people want to practice dog psychology on their own aggressive or reactive dogs, fine, but who would expect someone to voluntarily offer up their little dog as bait so the agressors' handlers could practice their body blocking maneuvers?

Another thing not yet mentioned, if a true dogfight were to break out, I would expect the instructor to know what to do and be prepared for that (and any) situation.  If kids are fighting on a playground, we expect the supervisor to step in and deal with it, we don't expect the other kids to know how to handle it, nor do we want them to.

ORIGINAL: Liesje


If two dogs were coming to attack an infant, I'd pick it up.  If two dogs were coming to attack my cat, I'd pick it up.  If two dogs were coming to attack my dog...well, I can't pick her up but you betcha I'd hit them with a stick!!  If people want to practice dog psychology on their own aggressive or reactive dogs, fine, but who would expect someone to voluntarily offer up their little dog as bait so the agressors' handlers could practice their body blocking maneuvers?

 
A dog cant be compared to a kid, thats a waaaaaaaaaaaay different situation; to a cat? i doubt the cat would let himself to be carried and i've seen it before, they rather run
 
Also i would like you to quuote my post where i said to offer the dog as bait, even less to "practice the body block skills", i can see it now "wait a minute doggy, i need to practice before doing anything to help you"
 
I'm only saying is not the best choice, if people want to do it then be my guest, i already provided links to help them []

if there is a fight obviously safety is going to override dog psychology at that moment

 
Nuff said methinks....
 
No way would I risk trying a body block or any other manouvure on a dog I didn't know - the only other thing you can do to protect your dog is distance.  And if the easiest and fastest way to gain distance between your dog and the aggressor is to pick him up then go for it... granted it's not ideal but it's the easiest thing to do in that moment. 

A dog cant be compared to a kid, thats a waaaaaaaaaaaay different situation; to a cat? i doubt the cat would let himself to be carried and i've seen it before, they rather run

Hmmm, you don't know my cats!  They stand their ground far longer than they have any business doing.  Our Maximus had it out for my uncle's chocolate lab who is not socialized and has a high prey drive.  The only thing that saved him was the fact that she was still on a lead and wearing a prong collar.  If she wasn't, you bet I would have picked him up sooner than I would have grabbed for her collar or body checked her out of the way!!  She's as big as me, and far stronger.

I love my animals as much as I would love a child, so no, it's not way different.  I treat dogs like dogs and kids like kids, but when it comes to their safety, I don't devalue the safety of my dog because it's a dog. 

This would be a whole different story if if were Firestorm's dog picking the fight, but he's not, so what does body blocking have to do with it anyway?   Her dog has nothing to do with it, so she can just get it out of harm's way.

I saw this senerio played out at a dog park a year or so ago. Several dogs (4-5) of medium size ran up to a woman and her pap as they entered the gate. It started with the larger dogs just wanting to sniff the pap, but the pap started barking and growling. The other dogs continued to approch the pap and the owner picked her dog up. Immediately the larger dogs began jumping up at the pap. The pap went nuts and began clawing climbing up the owners face. The women started screaming and for whatever reason (panic) doubled over. One of the dogs then jumped on her back, knocking her to the ground and leaving her with a serious scratch. Other people in the park managed to pull the dogs away but it all happened in like 5 seconds. It was really scary! The pap was OK but the poor lady was quite injured from her dog and the other dogs.

^^  But that's a little different than what we have here because the Pap participated in the brawl by barking and growling.  If any dog does that, I wouldn't recommend picking it up, same for Harley.  The difference is Firestorm says Harley wants no part in the spats between the Aussies and the other dogs.

I understand it is different, but whether the dog was pick up for the appropriate reason or not, it illustrates what can potentially happen. That's all.

ORIGINAL: espencer

ORIGINAL: JM

Best to pick it up and get it to a safe area at the first sign of trouble.

And that sign would be?

Yes, that's the crux.

In terms of this thread, the "sign" = one of the BCs got loose.
It's a clean move. It doesn't deny or disregard dog psychology, it avoids the crisis before it happens.
Waiting till Harley was afraid would indeed be babying fear (yuck).

Espencer and others have made great points about the general problems of "picking up the dog." Especially in terms of aggressions or hostilities already engaged on one or both sides. Everybody is being very thoughtful to think out the highest level of safety for both dog and handler (and cat, too, even).

The pap story is an interesting contribution - sounds like a candidate for the meanest show on TV "America's Funniest Home Videos." While it's an interesting story, and I appreciated reading it, none of it is contextually related to the OP's scenario, as described here. There seems to be consesus that the Aussies probably aren't much of a threat, and the OP has stated that Harley is "a well mannered little dog instead of a Napolean."

So, any one see a problem with the OP's plan, that hasn't already been discussed?

ORIGINAL: Firestorm

#1 I will keep Harley far far away from the other dogs.
#2 I will speak with the owner/handlers of the other dogs and politely ask them to keep a good distance between their dog and mine.
#3 I already informed the instructor and she said she will tell them to keep space away from all the other dogs.
#4 If I feel the slightest bit that Harley could be in trouble I will pick him up unless there is not time, in which case I will block him and tell the other dog Leave It in a loud voice.

I think it's great, Firestorm, that you've talked to the trainer, consulted with others, and have drawn up a plan of action. I hope class becomes more fun for you, and your anxiety melts away []

The pap story is an interesting contribution - sounds like a candidate for the meanest show on TV "America's Funniest Home Videos." While it's an interesting story, and I appreciated reading it, none of it is contextually related to the OP's scenario, as described here.

I disagree about the story being unrelated.  Note that the pap was not hurt, so the other dogs were not vicious.
 
Until the first time it happens, an owner may not know how his/her own dog will react to being picked up like that.  When a scared dog goes into fight or flight mode, being restrained can cause the dog to panic and attack the owner.
 
That said, if I had a tiny dog, I would pick it up if I thought it was in danger.  I couldn't manage that with a 40lb dog.  I probably couldn't even manage it with a squirming 20lb dog.  If I am fighting to control my own dog, I can't deal with the other dogs. 
 
This boils down to knowing your own dog and your own physical capabilities.  Running for a hose may be a better solution than picking up your dog.