Do I need to have my Siberian Put down Friday?

Before you euthanize, you might try the protocol in "Mine! A Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs" by Jean Donaldson.  You are the only one who can decide his fate.  But, the fact is that even if you could train him not to bite you, the likelihood is that he might bite someone for whom he does not have the same respect - and his bites are serious.  In any case, the solution to food aggression is never to try to get something away from an aggressive dog - that's why I suggested the book to you.  Taking his stuff only makes him want to protect it more.  In any case, this is a dog with a severe bite history, and you cannot give him away - too much of a liability.  Husky rescue would not take such a dog.  So, you are left to either try to rehab him, or take responsibility for euthanizing him.  If you do get another dog eventually, try a breed that is easier for a novice to deal with...

There might be a chance that this aggression is thryoid related.  I know that there are studies showing that low thryoid can cause aggression in some dogs.  But, I don't know how it manifests.  It may manifest in normal aggressive ways.  A couple of years ago, they came out with studies to prove this. They just came out with that information such a short time ago that vets may not think about the connection.  Of course, I can't say for sure that it is -- but there is that possiblity.

How long has he been like this?  You say he is 3 years old.  Has he always been like this?  If not, then I think that points to a medical issue. 
Neutering might help, but I am also thinking about thyroid issues - more so if it is a "relatively" new behaviour - as in "he didn't use to be like this, but is now".

If it were me, I would order the book Spiritdogs suggested - she is an excellent trainer and would know what book would be best.

Also, If it were me, I would also do the blood panel workup.  I would rather know I did all that I could reasonably do before putting down an otherwise good dog.

It needs to be a full workup - including auto-antibodies.  It will be around $80 plus the office visit.  Well worth "making sure".  It should only be sent to one of two places:  either Dr. Dodds herself in Califonia (I can find out the address and websites if you need it) or to Michigan State University.  These are the best ones and they do the extended testing and if asked, will suggest therapy protocol.    You can send the bloodwork yourself to Dr. Dodds - there is info on how to do that.  But, it is much easier if the vet sends it to MSU - just make sure that they have the "codes" for the full panel and the shipment pack to send it in beforehand.

I think these are resonable approaches to try.  Of course, in the meantime, you do need to keep the dog away from strangers and all children.  You will need to have him muzzled for the blood draw.  The blood required is *I think* at least 3 ml of serum-not blood, but serum, could be 2 ml, but there is a definate minimum..  So, they will need to take that from the neck vein.  And, really, for a dog might be put down, then if you can't get the blood b/c he won't coperate and the vet actually can't do a draw - then I think I would just option to start treatment and see if it helps.  I would *never* say that under any other circumstance.  I would certainly hope that the vet would be able to do a draw ---- oh, they could give a sedative in order to do the draw.  Just thought of that.        Anyway, keep him away from others, and do keep yourself protected in the meantime.  While I do think it is worth exploring these other possiblities ---- there is a responsibility that you have to yourself and others.  So, do make sure you can control the circumstances around him  if you choose these options.  You must protect yourself as well as others - so don't try and take food or toys away from him in the meantime.

I am sorry you are having to deal with this......

no, he doesn't need to be put down; he can be re-trained and managed. Resource guarding is a behavior that responds very well to training-- get the book spiritdogs recommends, and follow the protocol carefully. The biting the vet can be managed-- muzzle the dog before you go in. The biting the stranger-- well, don't let strangers pet him. Not many dogs out there who actually enjoy being handled by strangers. You can try to de-sensitize him to strangers by enlisting people to toss treats at him from a distance.  

I would get a behaviorist over there and have them help you out.  I would not put him in situations where he could harm someone, see how far you can get with a behaviorist and then slowly put him in some controlled situations.

Mudpuppy, et al, with all due respect, the question seems to be between giving the dog away and euthanizing.

If that's the case, then IMO it's not okay to give this dog to anyone else. Rehoming dogs is stressful and will only escalate the guarding.

If the question is "can I figure out how to manage this dog myself?" then I agree with you guys. But the OP should know that owning a dog with a hard mouth is a serious liability and that managing this dog is a serious job, that slipups are not okay.

In general, I think this kind of thing is a shame because it sounds like a preventable situation. I think that's what you guys are responding to. But now... it is what it is. The dog bites humans hard enough to require medical attention. And in this situation the relatives are right. The dog is a serious liability, and it's not okay to rehome a dog that gives people serious wounds.

It sounds like OP really loves this dog and would prefer not to be rid of him, so I'm sure the alternate suggestions will be appreciated. 
 
Please please PLEASE get the check up done at the vet as suggested and contact a BEHAVIOURIST (not a trainer) to help you assess the dog before you make a decision.
 
If it does come to letting him go then I'm afraid I agree with the others who have said he is too much of a liability to rehome..... if you can't manage and rehab (which sounds like it would be do-able but big job and responsibility) then PTS,

Problem is if anyone touches his food bowl or comes too near it; he bites very savagely.

I agree with the others that there is absolutely no way that you can rehome this dog!!  That would not absolve you of liability for the dog's behavior.  However, please do check for thyroid problems before giving up on him.  Also please let us know what you decide to do.
 
Hypothyroidism can easily cause aggression problems - sometimes that is the only symptom. A pill twice a day is the only treatment necessary if this is the problem. If you decide to get a test, I would get a full (6-way) thyroid panel and insist on having the test done by Hemopet (even if I had to mail it off myself).
[linkhttp://www.itsfortheanimals.com/HEMOPET.HTM]http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/HEMOPET.HTM[/link]
 
That would get you a reliable test and access to a thyroid expert and researcher - Dr. Jean Dodds. (Hemopet's test includes T3, T4, free T3, free T4, T3 autoantibodies and T4 autoantibodies.) Dr. Dodds' knowledge is invaluable since normal readings vary with breed and age.
 
For lurkers - This is the reason that all new puppies should be carefully trained that a human hand near the dog's food bowl often means that good things are added to the bowl.  Frequently drop a goodie in the pup's bowl.  At the very first sign of any aggression get Donaldson's book!!!  The problem is almost always correctable with pups (and very frequently correctable with adults).  [Biting strangers and vets is a completely different issue.]
 
Note that food guarding is normal canine behavior.  We have to teach them not to do that.
 
Donaldson, Jean[font=verdana][size=3], Mine! A Guide To Resource Guarding In Dogs, 2002
[linkhttp://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB740]http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB740[/link][/size][/font]

"But, the fact is that even if you could train him not to bite you, the likelihood is that he might bite someone for whom he does not have the same respect - and his bites are serious.  In any case, the solution to food aggression is never to try to get something away from an aggressive dog - that's why I suggested the book to you.  Taking his stuff only makes him want to protect it more.  In any case, this is a dog with a severe bite history, and you cannot give him away - too much of a liability."  
Wise advice and having had dogs all my life and not having had problems like this with my prior husky of 13 years leads me to believe... it's sometimes, just an individual dog.
Thanks so much for your time and insightful advice. Ric


"How long has he been like this?  You say he is 3 years old.  Has he always been like this? "
Always..so my Vet doesn't believe it's medical. He is neutered. Ric

"While I do think it is worth exploring these other possibilities ---- there is a responsibility that you have to yourself and others.  So, do make sure you can control the circumstances around him  if you choose these options.  You must protect yourself as well as others - so don't try and take food or toys away from him in the meantime. chasza "Thanks so much for your time and valuable advice.

"Resource guarding is a behavior that responds very well to training-- get the book spiritdogs recommends, and follow the protocol carefully. The biting the vet can be managed-- muzzle the dog before you go in. The biting the stranger-- well, don't let strangers pet him. Not many dogs out there who actually enjoy being handled by strangers."
Unfortunately his environment will at many times include small children. The liability issue and threat to children is a high one. My past Huskies never behaved like this one. I will read "Mine! A Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs" by Jean Donaldson.
  Thank you so much for responding and your time. Ric

"I would get a behaviorist over there and have them help you out.  I would not put him in situations where he could harm someone, see how far you can get with a behaviorist and then slowly put him in some controlled situations. "
I did seek out the best dog aggression behaviorist in the area. Three vets recommended him. He too was savagely bitten to the point that even though he wore a protective glove; the glove was shredded and his skin was bleeding after one minute. He was very uncertain of anything he could accomplish.
Thanks so much for your help and response. Ric

If the question is "can I figure out how to manage this dog myself?" then I agree with you guys. But the OP should know that owning a dog with a hard mouth is a serious liability and that managing this dog is a serious job, that slipups are not okay. fisher[color=#990000]There just has to be one slipups during the life of the dog that can seriously hurt a child. I couldn't live with that. Ric
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[/color] "In general, I think this kind of thing is a shame because it sounds like a preventable situation. I think that's what you guys are responding to. But now... it is what it is. The dog bites humans hard enough to require medical attention. And in this situation the relatives are right. The dog is a serious liability, and it's not okay to rehome a dog that gives people serious wounds."

Prior to acquiring huskies I read all that was available and ordered aggressive dog DVD 's and equipment to try and stop this behavior at an early age. I would love for future reference to know how it is preventable.
I agree with you that it is a serious liability; but not one that was preventable, as dogs like people have personalities.
Thank you very much for your advice. Ric

It sounds like OP really loves this dog and would prefer not to be rid of him, so I'm sure the alternate suggestions will be appreciated. 

Please please PLEASE get the check up done at the vet as suggested and contact a BEHAVIOURIST (not a trainer) to help you assess the dog before you make a decision.

"If it does come to letting him go then I'm afraid I agree with the others who have said he is too much of a liability to rehome..... if you can't manage and rehab (which sounds like it would be do-able but big job and responsibility) then PTS,"

My wife and I love this dog and will miss him terribly. Even though my hand was severely bitten down to the bone and severed deep muscles; I was lucky not to have severe nerve damage. I would not want this to happen to anyone else. So considering all the help here and with counsel locally, we regrettably are tenatively considering PTS. Thanks for your thoughtfulness and thorough recommendations. Chezra our dog, will see the Vet late Friday as a last resort but in my heart I believe I have no choice. Ric

"I agree with the others that there is absolutely no way that you can rehome this dog!  That would not absolve you of liability for the dog's behavior.  However, please do check for thyroid problems before giving up on him.  Also please let us know what you decide to do.
 
Hypothyroidism can easily cause aggression problems - sometimes that is the only symptom.

For lurkers - This is the reason that all new puppies should be carefully trained that a human hand near the dog's food bowl often means that good things are added to the bowl.  Frequently drop a goodie in the pup's bowl.  At the very first sign of any aggression get Donaldson's book!!!  The problem is almost always correctable with pups (and very frequently correctable with adults).  [Biting strangers and vets is a completely different issue.]
 
Note that food guarding is normal canine behavior.  We have to teach them not to do that. "
I have always added small puppy treats on top of his meal since we acquired him at six weeks. So a human hand has always been present. He bit them more often but not as hard. The negative situation gradually escalated. I will read Mine.....

Thanks for sharing your knowledgeable words.


I appreciate all of your responses and help in making this decision.

Ric

I have always added small puppy treats on top of his meal since we acquired him at six weeks. So a human hand has always been present. He bit them more often but not as hard. The negative situation gradually escalated.

It does sound like there is something wrong with the dog's temperament or health.  That is truly unfortunate and I feel for your situation. 
 
Bite inhibition is taught by the dam and the littermates between 5-8 weeks, so perhaps the early age contributed to the severity of the bites.  Have you talked to the breeder about aggression problems in any of the siblings?

 
"How long has he been like this?  You say he is 3 years old.  Has he always been like this? "
Always..so my Vet doesn't believe it's medical. He is neutered. Ric

[color="#000000"]If he has always been this way, he may always have been hypothyroid...sometimes vets miss it because they do not test, or they do not do the full panel.  Janet's links on submitting the test to Dr. Dodds will help you figure out if this is treatable.  Also, some dogs are managed well on Clomicalm or other medications.   I would get a consultation with a holistic vet.
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I have been around Huskies quiet a bit, and have never encountered such an aggressive dog. IMO, it's medical, or a taught behavior........can you give us some background on how the dog was socialized......

ORIGINAL: chezra

He is smart and loving and responds to 10-15 commands. He loves to be with me inside and out. He waits until I state Ok before eating...Sitting for the command. He will not enter certain parts of my house as he has been trained- it is off limits. He does no damage to my house or yard. He almost never barks.



Problem is if anyone touches his food bowl or comes too near it; he bites very savagely. He has tried to bite a stranger once when she tried to pet him. He has tried to bite his vet when being checked. I have been bitten badly in the hand last week and needed emergency care.
If he has a favorite bone and one tried to remove it .. he bites.


He has bitten a pro aggressive trainer thru a snowmobile glove in an exercise...trying to agitate him.


My relatives state that he should be put down immediately. I have been told he is a severe liability. I have had huskies in the past and had no problems like this.


Ric

 
  Why do you want to put him down? You are making an excuse to get rid of this dog because you have not teach him to be calm around his food.It is not the dog's fault that he became this, but yours. You taught him that it was ok for him to act like this now you want to euthanize him. After him being gone, I hope you will not get another dog. I would feel sorry for the next dog but not you

Better euthanasia than a dead child. I have re-habbed and managed an aggressive, dangerous resource-guarder, but we have no children, and would not have attempted the feat if we did.

taught behavior

 taught behavior........can you give us some background on how the dog was socialized......

 
  This behavior was being taught. He learned to use teeth to intimate people and they backed away rather than confront him.If his owners or strangers refuse to back down, they will be winning the battle with this dog. Now he has learned that his teeth will scare people away because no one was willing to confront him. This makes him more dominant and aggressive.I am not surprised that he started it when he was young.