Puppy biting until bleeding

 Biting is not exceptable behavior and should not be allowed!!! this is the time to stop it . You must become the Alpha dog(boss leader) in the the pack and do what his mom would do if he trys this again (to late now) . Flip him over on his back (submissive position) hold him down with your hand (he will ressist) until he stops fighting . and  you growl (just like Mom would do) and mean it! After he relaxes and he has calmed down release him. This is called the Alpha roll works for all breeds. You must mean it ! I would advise you to find a good book on puppy training about dog behavior. Laraine  weinervilleusa.com

weinervilleusa.com

Biting is not exceptable behavior and should not be allowed!!! this is the time to stop it . You must become the Alpha dog(boss leader) in the the pack and do what his mom would do if he trys this again (to late now) . Flip him over on his back (submissive position) hold him down with your hand (he will ressist) until he stops fighting . and  you growl (just like Mom would do) and mean it! After he relaxes and he has calmed down release him. This is called the Alpha roll works for all breeds. You must mean it ! I would advise you to find a good book on puppy training about dog behavior. Laraine  weinervilleusa.com

I would urge you not to do this.  I have never seen or heard of a Mama dog actually doing this. 

This is a very contraversial technique called the alpha roll and is based on flawed studies which were carried out on wolf packs several decades ago and have since been debunked.  The original advocates of this (Monks of New Skete) have since revised their book and said hat actually, no ths is NOT a good idea. 

Some people believe that this technique is useful as a management technique ONLY on extremely aggressive dogs, carried out by a professional to prevent them hurting themselves or anyone else - but NOT on a puppy or by Joe Public.  There is no real way to know how your dog will interpret this action without actually looking into his head, but the current thinking by a lot of people is that in most cases the roll is OFFERED by the subordinate, not forced by the "alpha" and dogs do not usually "roll" one another unless in a very very serious fight.  If this is the case, your little puppy could well think you are trying or kill or severely injure him.

I don't want to derail this thread as this method has already been dicussed up and down many times, but I do want to urge you not to do this - especially not on your dog.  I doubt even advocates of this method would recommend you try this on a puppy, for a very normal behaviour that is easy to curb in other ways, using kinder, safer methods.... particularly if you are not a professional.

Look up "learned helplessness" to see how this could affect your relationship with your dog.

Oh my.  I have had any number of litters through my door, have said it before and I'll say it again, momma dogs don't roll and pin.  I've had cocker spaniels (mine) mixed breeds, german shepherds (one opps litter of my own and a couple foster litters) and the momma dogs do NOT roll and pin.  They might do a nose nudge, but normally it's "the look".  No physical corrections involved.  And the only time I've seen a momma dog scruff her pup is to bring him/her back to where she wanted the baby, not as a form of discipline.  And for those who don't know me and might think I'm some sort of back yard breeder, we USED to breed cocker spaniels, but have for years fostered, and usually momma's to be.

I completely agree that biting is unacceptable.  However, in this case, Mom forcing her hand into the pups mouth was basically asking for trouble.  Pup thought she was stealing HIS bone, which in fact, she was, regardless of her motivation.

The OP has been given mostly good advice here.  Drop it, leave it and trade are all excellent and safe ways to get something that the pup should not have.  If it has not been mentioned, a basic obedience class is usually considered a basic neccessity with a new pup or dog.  This will teach you and Mom how to teach the pup properly.

diane303

I know that this is off the subject but I just had to ask because this "mouth handling" subject has come up a number of times.  I'm really not being contentious here.  When you bring your dog to the vet and the vet opens the dog's mouth to look in it's mouth, or if you are showing a dog in conformation and the judge handles a dog's mouth to look at teeth, is that considered rude?

I've honestly never had a dog that bit me when I went to remove a piece of food that it should have.  I do, however, teach my dogs "drop it" and tell them to do this first, but none of my dogs would ever threaten or consider biting me. 

I think that you should consider that you have been lucky to have had dogs that do not guard.  However, this is a problem that simply training "drop" will not fix.  Why?  Because a dog that guards is pretty much on autopilot when the food hits the floor, and he may decide that, even if kibble is not worth guarding, something else is. The something can be food, a kleenex, a person, space, or anything else.  You can't teach a dog to quit guarding space just by wishing it so.  Dogs need a complete training program to do this, and they need to have the behavior generalize to new places, different people, etc.  Not an easy task.  The worst thing any owner of a guarding dog can do is TRIGGER guarding behavior.  What the dog practices, he learns is acceptable!!!  So, the trade exercise is designed to keep the handler safe, but also get the guardy dog to realize that his stuff is not in jeopardy, and that it always in his best interest (dogs repeat behavior that works for them, somehow, whether the humans like that or not) to give up his "prizes" to the human.  But, that is only the beginning, and part of a great program of NILIF, where the dog learns to defer to the human's requests and ask permission of the human.  (So, sit at the door and wait until released to go out.)   If you have only had dogs that are deferential, it's easy to teach "drop".  If you haven't, it can be dangerous to offer advice like this to the owner of a guarder.  JMHO, having trained quite a few pretty guardy dogs in my time.  The real danger with these dogs is that they often know pretty darn well who they can guard with, and who they cannot.  That's why they are not placed in homes with kids, and why shelters often euthanize them.  It's costly to keep a dog, feed, and care for him, long enough to train this away - so they opt for PTS and finding homes for the dogs that have less baggage.  Sad, but true.

A four month old puppy needs to receive this training NOW, before it gets to be an ingrained habit.  Even though he's little, he can still do significant damage with those tiny teeth.  Get Jean Donaldson's book "Mine!" or try Brenda Aloff's booklet on resource guarding.  Either way, do it safely. 
 

I have the same problem with my dog pug/shitzu. He is starting to get very aggressive with my kids.if my 9 year old sits on my lap,the dog will go after him and he has actually bit him once,i got this dog may 17 of this year, he was 7 wks old.he also will not go outside when it is raing or dark to use the bathroom for some unknown reason he does his business in my 16 yr old daughters room,.i have also tried to have him associate with other dogs,but he tries to bite them to.

Tammy, I'd suggest that you start another thread since you have multiple issues.

weinervilleusa.com

 Biting is not exceptable behavior and should not be allowed!!! this is the time to stop it . You must become the Alpha dog(boss leader) in the the pack and do what his mom would do if he trys this again (to late now) . Flip him over on his back (submissive position) hold him down with your hand (he will ressist) until he stops fighting . and  you growl (just like Mom would do) and mean it! After he relaxes and he has calmed down release him. This is called the Alpha roll works for all breeds. You must mean it ! I would advise you to find a good book on puppy training about dog behavior. Laraine  weinervilleusa.com

You ARE kidding, right?????

If you aren't, let me clue you - this is abuse and is shameful conduct toward any dog, not to mention completely unnecessary.  I do like your suggestion that our OP find a good book on training.  Allow me to suggest one: "The Power of Positive Training" by Pat Miller.  Get it at dogwise.com, and don't go near this person's site.  The alpha roll is a misguided and archaic exercise, and will convince your dog of only one thing - that you are unpredictable and scary, or that you deserve a few stitches..

Chuffy

Some people believe that this technique is useful as a management technique ONLY on extremely aggressive dogs, carried out by a professionalto prevent them hurting themselves or anyone else - but NOT on a puppy or by Joe Public. 

I agree with that 100% 

Hi everyone, just joined the forum.

 I raise English cockers and I spend hours with my litters, socializing them to being handled at all times and especially while they are eating.  I have willing neighbors come over before the weaning process begins, the puppies are held, cuddled and loved.  When I begin the transition to puppy gravy, each friend takes one puppy and one dish of food.  Naturally, the volunteers rotate to different puppies each feeding. They show the puppy the food, let them nibble from their fingers.  As they begin to move toward solid food, the puppies are still being handled. We touch their ears, paws, faces.  None of my puppies have ever shown any food aggression.  They know that humans are the givers of food.  I realize that puppies come from different backgrounds.  I recommend that anyone who is buying a puppy question the breeder closely as to what they have done to socialize the puppies.

 However, my miniature American Eskie, when she was just the size of a beanie baby, thought she should growl at the bigger dogs and at me when she was chewing on a yummy.  So, instead of GIVING her the chew, I held it in my hand and let her chew on it while I retained possesion. It was MY chew that I was sharing with her and I did not allow her to take it away.  She learned very quickly and after only a few times, she never growled at any human again.       

I think this is great advice.

flwrchld53

So, instead of GIVING her the chew, I held it in my hand and let her chew on it while I retained possesion. It was MY chew that I was sharing with her and I did not allow her to take it away.  She learned very quickly and after only a few times, she never growled at any human again.       

I have done this too but mainly because puppies NEED to chew and mouth and nibble.... and if you haven't got something for them to chew on, they will probably chew on you.  I had never thought of the impact this could have had on them in other ways. 

Would just like to share something else with the OP that I had not heard of before.... someone told me about it today, it was a technique they had seen tried on a dog who was very possessive about his tennis ball.  The idea was to totally de-value the item in the eyes of the dog.  So what they did was, they bought a ton of tennis balls and put them all in a big bag.  They stood in a closed room with the dog and took a tennis ball out and dropped it, then another, then another, then  another..... and then eventually tipped the whole bag of them out.  Balls were bouncing everywhere and the dog stood in the middle of the room looking a bit dazed.  It  kind of took the edge off his precious ball when there were so many of them!  I think they repeated this daily for a few days, I'm not 100% sure how long they kept it up or exactly HOW much impact it had on the dog on its own, as they ahd other measures in place as well... this was just a part of the training.  But I just thought I would share.

Respectfully, I totally disagree with the above advice.

This is a completely different sort of situation than teaching a pup not to nip and bite in play.  I would not use those methods for that either, for the record.

We are not discussing a case of normal puppy teething/nipping/play biting in this thread.  For those who have not read the thread, in a nutshell, pup had a "bone" that was becoming too small and potentially dangerous for the pup.  Mom wanted to take the bone away and to do so basically pryed the pups mouth open and took the bone.  Pup bit.

Although Mom didn't understand what she was doing wrong, what she actually did was rude and agressive behavior towards the pup.  She certainly didn't take those actions with malice or to be cruel, but rather to safeguard the pup.  Despite Mom's best intentions, now there is the situation where pup has bitten and Mom is afraid of the pup.

The advice that has been given regarding training, teaching trade, drop it and leave it, are all excellent and I hope that the OP will be able to follow through with those ideas.

I have 15+ dogs in my house ranging from Great Danes to a Chihuahua and there isn't a dog here that I can't reach into their mouth and take away a bone or anything else that they have. They wouldn't even consider biting me or anyone else for that matter. I don't play this trade game or anything else. I am the dominant leader as are any other humans. I have many times straddled them and growled. I know some people don't believe in it but it DOES work. Do I try this with a full grown Dane?? Well of course not, don't be insane .. just use common sense. I would an adult Chihuahua though. I never have to do this with my adult Danes because I start them as puppies taking away anything I want including their food bowl. There is no "possessiveness" allowed in my house, EVER.

For the gal with the biting ShihTzu, first thing is get her OFF your lap. You are empowering her by letting sit up there and bite your kids. First time she did this she would be pushed into the floor and either put in a crate or thrown outside. Personally I would hold her down (which can be done very humanely). I don't recommend it for you but find a reputable trainer. She should be on a leash so the kids can move her off the couch without fear of being bitten. Then they should make her get down and sit in her spot. In fact she shouldn't be allowed on the furniture at all until she knows her place in the house which is UNDER all humans. But I know how sneaky little dogs are and they appear on the furniture very quietly. I have 2 small kids and multiple dogs and my children or their friends have never been bitten by my dogs. So some people might call my methods horrible but they work and my dogs are very well adjusted, happy dogs. They are show dogs and they have to be use to everything. They are very well socialized, sweet dogs.

Please watch "The Dog Whisperer" to see some of his techniques. His techniques are very effective with minimal effort. Both of these problems are very common.

Cathy  

piedane

I have many times straddled them and growled.

Are you serious???  I can't work out if this is serious advice for the OP or some kind of wind up...