none

    • Gold Top Dog

    none

    none

    • Gold Top Dog
    Bump because I really need some help before bedtime tonight!!
    • Gold Top Dog
    For crate training purposes, the best thing you can do is wait him out but I can understand your concerns about the neighbours!
    How did you introduce Fudge to the crate? Is he only in it at nightime (if he is, that could be your problem)? Does he complain in the crate immedietely or only after a certain length of time? Since you haven't had Fudge long, I expect he just needs so time to adjust!
    If he's better in his x-pen perhaps you can move it into your room (so you don't have to second guess whether or not he needs to potty)?  Is there anything inside his crate that smells like you/SO, Gingerbread or from his breeder (not just new toys/blanket)? Perhaps putting the crate on your bed/or having it elevated will help?? Personally I wouldn't say "no" and I definately wouldn't squirt water at him - just be completely oblivious to it (although that's easier said than done, especially with neighbours!)...
    During the days, even though Fudge is very young, start laying the foundations for "quiet" or "enough" or "go to bed/on your mat"...
     
    Dodger screamed in the crate as a puppy - only he'd end up bleeding from trying to get out... My fix was to not use the crate. [:)] Instead, I kept Dodger tethered by my bed so he couldn't move around/ingest anything/be destructive/go potty without me waking up. He house-trained perfectly fine and only had 1 accident in the house (and that wasn't at night)....  I personally found it much easier to introduce the crate to Dodger as a clicker trained adult (nothing I tried when he was a puppy convinced him it was an ok place)
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thank you jetty for your reply. [:)] I think you're right about not using the squirt bottle or saying no anymore. It's just so hard to not do something when he's screaming for hours. I posted these same questions in another section and I'm trying having his crate where he can see me and also using a DAP diffuser.

    He's not better at all in his ex-pen. He screams just as much and he starts screaming as soon as he's put in there. He's only in his crate at night and he was in his expen maybe 20 minutes today. The thing is that he's REALLY good as long as he isn't confined so it's very easy to leave him out. Plus I live in a small 1 bedroom apartment so it's easy to keep an eye on him. He uses his puppy pads about 75% of the time.

    As far as how I introduced him to the crate, well he came home from the airport in it, so I guess he'd already been introduced. Then that night I put him in his crate with the blanket, toys and hot water bottle. I've read a lot that you're not supposed to close the door until the dog is comfortable with it, but that's not realistic at all. He eats in his puppy pen, but he doesn't like it anymore than the crate.

    I had considered using a tether instead of a crate at night, but how does that work? I imagine that he'd chew right through a leash.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I think your problem is that he's learned the crate is a scary, lonely place that he's left in for hours (not to mention he just wants to be with everyone else of course)[:D].  He needs to start going in and out of the crate for short periods of time during the day...You can start by just tossing in a toy or treat or even getting Gingerbread to go in.  Perhaps feed him in his crate or give him a kong - if he's really unsure at first, leave the door open.  Also practice putting him in the crate, shutting the door and feeding him treats.  Eventually you will work up to longer periods of time but right now, the most important thing is to quite while you are ahead...End on a positive note before he has time to start screaming - even if that means you only get one repetition in. I'd do this as often as you can throughout the day but especially when Fudge is tired and ready to nap. I'd also try and give him something extra special that he only gets in his crate - a favorite toy, treat or chew - anything that is HIGH value for him. Hopefully if you start doing this during the day, keep the crate elevated at night and try a DAP diffuser he will slowly accept it!
     
    With regards to the tethering - Dodger was so content to be out of the crate that chewing was never an issue. As a puppy, he was also exercised extensively. But it doesn't always have to be exercise - I'd just make sure Dodger didn't sleep after 8pm - we'd do a lot of socializing with new things/places during those times so he was mentally exhausted as well (after boosters of course).
    If you try tethering, you can get one of those lightweight chain leashes (the dollar store sells them) so that Fudge doesn't chew it!
     
    ETA - good luck! I hope you get some sleep tonight!
    • Gold Top Dog
    If you pay attention - any attention - to him when he screams, he'll do it forever!!!!! Stop!
    Call your neighbors and ask their forebearance for a few nights until he's trained.  Then, stop putting your hand down, don't talk, squirt or thump.  You have accidentally been reinforcing him for screaming - he got your attention every time!  This may take a few nights longer than it would have if you had just done it when you first got him.  Be prepared for him to escalate the behavior when you do don't respond.  (Google on "extinction burst") 
    If he needs toileting at night, you set your alarm for a few minutes before the time when he normally wakes up (that way, he doesn't get to scream for your attention), and take him out. When you get back, he goes right back in the crate without any talk, play, etc. and you continue to ignore him for the rest of the night.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Call your neighbors and ask their forebearance for a few nights until he's trained.

     
    I think I'd go over with some homemade cookies or such (even store bought from the deli would do) instead of calling. 
     
    Sometimes covering the crate will help.
    • Silver
    I've got a similar problem with my current foster dog. The previous owner would talk to him to try to get him quiet in his crate, so he whines, cries, barks, and yelps like crazy. I simply ignore him 100% until he's quiet and it's gotten better. I also feed all my dogs and my fosters in their crates. It's really for safety reasons (never know who will be food agressive), but it also makes the crate this magical place where they get fed. The crates are in the computer room so if anyone whines, it's not quite as bad. At night the foster and my lab, Gracie are both in their crates, but throughout the day, I'll put the foster in his crate with nobody else in the room and leave him for 30 mintues or until he gets quiet for a few minutes (whichever is longer).

    I've had Charlie (the foster) for a week, and he's doing much better, but still has plenty of work to go.

    Good luck, and the cookies suggested sound like a good plan...perhaps include some earplugs as well!
    • Gold Top Dog
    I had considered using a tether instead of a crate at night, but how does that work? I imagine that he'd chew right through a leash.


    My in-law's dog is tethered at night and while they're not home, but it works for him because he's tethered to his favorite spot in the house where his bed and food are.  What they do is put him on a shorter leash and hook it over the handle of their sliding door.  I imagine if they put a crate in that spot instead of the tether, he'd still like it just fine because if he's tired, he always goes to this same spot anyway.  I've never seen him whine or fight being tied up there.  I don't think it would be very effective for such a young puppy if he doesn't actually prefer to be in the spot where the tether is.

    Good luck with little Fudgekins!
    • Gold Top Dog
    What is happening is a rehearsed behavior. Fudge wants attention. Negative or positive. I just ignore Joy and the behavior faded.

    Try retraining the crate. Leave him in a few times a couple of minutes throughout the day, with tons of treats. If you have an airline type crate this works better than a wire crate, but spreading peanut butter or creamcheese at the back when he's not in the room works great. then whenever he goes there lies a yummy tasty treat. Only feed meals in the crate. When letting  Fudgey outta the crate, ignore him. Maybe one pet and a kiss, and ignore him for about 15 minutes, then pen him.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Just wanted to give an update. Last night I tethered him to an ottoman right next to my bed (using a harness and short enough tether that he couldn't get to the edge) and he was quiet as a mouse! I'm so happy I could cry! Now that he's not being crated all night it'll be easier to work on having him accept being in the crate and puppy pen for short times during the day.

    Spiritdogs- I think you're right that he wanted any attention, good or bad. From now on when he's in his puppy pen or crate and makes a fuss I'll just completely ignore him.

    As far as letting him out of the crate and puppy pen, I've always being very nonchalant (silent, no eye contact) and ignored him for a few minutes whenever I've let him out. I also usually have Gingerbread in the bedroom so it's not a play party when he gets out. I forgot to mention that I've given him a puppy kong with peanut butter in the pen, but he's been so upset that half the time he didn't eat it. I'll keep doing it though and eventually hopefully he'll calm down. Jetty that's a really good idea to put him in his crate and feed him treats through the door. I'm going to do that.

    Thank you all for your help!
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm happy to hear that you've found something that works! Keep us updated! I hope he'll accept the crate after you've worked on it during the day!
    • Gold Top Dog
    As far as how I introduced him to the crate, well he came home from the airport in it, so I guess he'd already been introduced.

    He may not have been properly introduced to being alone in a crate.  Also 8 to 11 weeks is a fear imprint period and something about the plane flight may have really scared him.
     
    Consider for instance a pup that is taken from a crate that he shared with his littermates and for the first time put alone into a smaller crate.  That crate is then put on a plane next to a barking, frantic dog.  The plane takes off with all the related noise and jostling.
     
    The pup could then associate being alone in a crate with that terrifying plane ride.
    • Puppy
    Edit: The post above mine quoted the same sentence and had similar thoughts!