Male on Male issues

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    • Gold Top Dog
    Ok, whether you choose to listen about breeding Max or not is your decision. 
    To address the reactionary issue (because it's not clear this is aggression), any of the suggestions I'd have rely on you having a clear understanding of dog body language.  What sort of experience do you have with dogs in the past?  How many have you trained - and have you worked with a trainer or behaviorist in the past to help you recognize dog posturing, eye contact, etc?
    • Gold Top Dog
    You say neutering is not an option, are you so dead set on breeding a dog that is not up to par?
     
    Showing up at the dogpark with a muzzled dog might not be the best idea.
     
    I have 5 males, and socializing as early as possible had to be done. IMO, a 4 year old intact male will provide big problems during socialization, you might be looking at fights, and maybe the dog will never adjust.
    • Gold Top Dog
    First dog parks are not the best place for all dogs.  If you have a dog aggressive dog then I would say that a dog park is the last place you need to be taking him right now.  I'd work on socializing him in much more predictable and controllable situations.  Introduce him to friends' dogs under a lot of supervision.  Offlead dog parks have way too many variables in my opinion especially for a dog with aggression issues. 
     
    Tiffy. If I was irrisponsible I would take my dog to the dog park any way, I would let him run around and get bitches preg. I would not take the time to sit and discuss with other dog people what the best way to fix my problem is. and if your read what I wrote correctly, you will see that breeding isn't a for sure thing yet. and if he is bred it with only be with another AKC registered dog.  If that is irrisponsible, then I would like to see the way you treat your dogs.

     
    Just a note- AKC registration means absolutely nothing without titles.  Many many AKC registered purebreds are not breeding quality.  Back yard breeders and puppy mills can both turn out AKC registered puppies- I have one froma BYB.  She is AKC registered, but she should NOT be bred.  She's a sheltie with slight agression issues and not so great conformation.  Why would you want to breed a dog that's not in standard in either temperament or conformation when there are plenty of dogs that are within standard?
     
    For short, do you want to breed this dog because he is a great example of a golden retriever as far as health, conformation, and temperament goes?  Or is it simply an option since he's AKC registered and purebred?  In my opinion neither of those are reasons to breed a dog. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    The way I treat my dogs, is having them all spayed and neutered. My purebred, AKC registered Pembroke Welsh Corgi would also have had pretty pups, but she is a bit on the shy side. A definite no-no in the breed standard. So, in the breed standard of a golden, I'm pretty sure any agression whatsoever, is a breed fault. Why is it not an option to have your dog neutered? Also, I never said you were irresponsible, I said that goldens are being overbred by irresponsible people.
    • Gold Top Dog
    you know, I don't think same-sex agression is usually caused by "undersocialization". If your dog couldn't deal with dogs in general we could assume under-socialization, but same-sex aggression is fairly common in certain breeds even in well-socialized dogs. And an ideal golden temperament contains no room for same-sex aggression.  If you breed this dog you are IMHO being extremely irresponsible.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thank to everyone who said it couldn't be done. you said I would never get a dog-park-dog out of Max. but I'm glad to say you were all wrong!
    I took him to the park today, and he was fine. we spent a few good hours there and males came and males went. I was a little fearful at first but the other owners assured me it would be ok. so off the leash he went to meet everyone.
    you said it was impossible. I'm proud to say you were all wrong.
     
    there is only one dog I'm leary over. he's a pup and lives with us. he'll sit and put his paws on Max, Max dosen't like it so much,. if they are just out togeather he's fine. but it's physcial interation Max dosen't like with him.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Golden Tails

    Thank to everyone who said it couldn't be done. you said I would never get a dog-park-dog out of Max. but I'm glad to say you were all wrong!
    I took him to the park today, and he was fine. we spent a few good hours there and males came and males went. I was a little fearful at first but the other owners assured me it would be ok. so off the leash he went to meet everyone.
    you said it was impossible. I'm proud to say you were all wrong.

    there is only one dog I'm leary over. he's a pup and lives with us. he'll sit and put his paws on Max, Max dosen't like it so much,. if they are just out togeather he's fine. but it's physcial interation Max dosen't like with him.


    I'm glad that your dog did fine at the dog park. But please understand that just because he did fine today does not mean that he will do fine tomorrow. An intact male that is possibly undersocialized is going to have a tendency to have "aggression" (for lack of a better word, I can't think right now. I'm really tired.) issues. Especially if he has already shown this trait in the past. I don't want to see your dog get hurt or for him to hurt another dog.

    And you say that neutering him is not an option? Why not? I must not understand your situation, so please enlighten me. I love the Golden Retriever breed, and I would hate to see more Goldens come into the world who have temperament issues. There are already too many of them... The breed has been going downhill because of things like this...
    • Gold Top Dog
    I have the sweetest, submissive (nuetered young) -Golden 5 year old mix.  Loves all dogs.
    I have a english bulldog nuetered male rescue 8 years old.  I have a 12 month spayed EB female.  These 3 have livied together for 1 year.  I thought all was well,,,til yesterday.
    The old EB decided to accept the Golden's playbow to play and off they went chasing each other.  Until the girl pup decided to join in.  They all got too close and BAM - the old EB attacked the Golden and a full blown fight was happening.  I screamed and got them apart but the EB got a bad bite wound above his eye.  We were lucky,,,,this time.  
     
    Don't play with fire.  Stay out of the dog park with a known male dog issues dog. Please for your sake, your pocketbook and the other dog who will get bit.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh I just read you have male pup also.  Please please, nueter them both ASAP. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    One more thing, I have a friend who had a sweet male unuetered Golden.  They got pick of his litter, so they had 2 males (father and son). The son kept testing DAD and finally DAD had to put SON in down in very bad fight. Not sure but I think they were both unnuetered at the time.  Father died a couple years later.  Now the son is a nice dog and plays very nice and sometimes lives with his littermate ( 2 sisters took the males).  Still not sure if he is nuetered.  
    • Puppy
    My thoughts for what it's worth...
     
    I have a male shep/dob mix and I've socialized the tar out of him starting at 9 weeks.  I took a couple weeks off during that critical socializationm period because he came to me with Parvo the first week I had him.  With that being said, I took him everywhere with me...car trips, dog parks, pet store, relative's houses.  He played with all my neighbors dogs and had doggie sleepovers.  He also goes to doggie daycare.  He's been categorized as neither aggressive nor submissive.  He doesn't start fights and will usually avoid them, but once confronted, he doesn't tend to back down and will defend himself.  I also take in foster dogs.  He's used to other dogs coming and going inside his space all the time.  Heck, I got a cat when he was 18 months old and he was SCARED to death of it.  He's never been aggressive and he was neutered at 6 months.  However, when he was almost 4, he started showing aggression to unneutered males.  It may have to do with his breed since I know male Dob's have a tendancy to be aggressive to other males, I don't know.  All I do know is that is socialization was stellar...lol.
     
    He's fine with neutered males and, in fact, plays better with them in most cases than with females.  I'm still wary of unneutered males at the dog park.  IMNSHO, a dog park is not the place for an unneutered dog especially one with aggressive tendancies even if it's only a socialization issue.  Too many issues can arise and I've see too many incidences because of this.  Other dogs know when a dog is not neutered and this leads to an unstable environment.  Dog parks are iffy at best anyways but you increase your chances of something happening when your dog is not fixed.  Too many irresponsible people frequent dog parks with no clue as to how to control their dogs or what problems can arise.  I'm glad your dog did well, but that's not the case in many instances.
     
    I, personally, wouldn't take a chance with an unneutered dog at a dog park because of the liability issue - but that's just me.  Not every dog is meant for the dog park.  I wanted one that was which is why I was so intent on socializing him from the get-go.  It still didn't stop the unneutered aggression from coming out and it happened later than I thought it would have so I wasn't prepared.  I thought I could take him anywhere because he was good with everybody and everything.  I was wrong.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ZenFan-
     
    Thanks for sharing.  And welcome to our forum. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Golden Tails

    how do I put this? I know his "agression" isn't really agression. He can get along with other males but has been hiden away from them for so long, he's never had a chance to meet them. I know if I introduced him to them one at a time he could calm down. my coysins who had him before me, kept him locked up. he never had a chance to meet other males.


    If you "know that" you are a better trainer than I, and I've been doing it a long time.  Intact male dogs will often pick fights with one another even if they are well socialized - granted, they rarely end in death, but sometimes the vet bill makes you think twice about your wisdom.  Just because he does fine one day at the dog park, doesn't mean he will do fine when some nimrod brings their intact male to play.  Unless this dog is non-aggressive, tested for eye problems and hip dysplasia, and titled in show, or some dog discipline like agility, you are just another backyard breeder in most people's book.  And, we certainly don't need him passing on any aggressive genes if they are there.  You feel attacked, but frankly, experienced dog people are giving you the advice that you need to hear.  I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but I'd rather have that than see you pop out a litter of 11 pups that go to pet homes (show people won't want them) and end up being aggressive with a child (most people who buy Goldens from byb's are families with kids, because everyone expects Goldens to be nice, which they are not always... This is a bad move, even if he's the nicest dog on the planet, and I urge you to do the snip.  Go show him for a couple of years, and get him tested and I might be more sympathetic.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Golden tails, welcome to the forum.,
    Try not to feel attacked, all mean well here, sometimes they just care more about the dogs then peoples feelings sometimes.
    Any time you talk about breeding your dog u will get this response.
    oh oh I used a u , instead of 'you.' now I`ll get attacked.
    just try not to take it to heart.[;)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    definitely don't breed him. but don't misunderstand me, everyone at one point wants to breed their dog! its almost like a dogs lifetime achievement, but honestly-- thats just us talkin'. its unhealthy to keep a dog 'intact' for so long without breeding so neuter him!

    neutering him will definitely help his aggressive behaviour but the dog park probably isn't for him until he starts on a smaller scale.