Dominant dogs?

What makes a dog dominant?

it's state of mind - it's social status in relation to you, the owner - who runs the house? who goes out the door first and leads you on a simple walk? who puts his or her paw on top of you? these are just some of the hundreds of cues as to who's really in charge.

Thanks for the reply lostcoyote.  I hope that more replies come in.

Edited. I'm going to just hang out and see what all is talked about in this thread before asking the questions I wanted to ask. Someone may ask them for me but be able to better articulate them.

I think is like a snowball, the lack of rules, boundries and limitations brings a dog that bounces off the furniture, growls at it's human, won't let the human touch it, etc., etc will bring the dog to take a decision, "should we continue with this life without direction or should we see if i can do it better?"

Now ,depending on the nature of each dog, some of them will just continue living in a confused style of life without  a leader since they definitely wont step up to the plate to be one, or they will step up "for the well being of the pack" but doing a really poor job and just waiting for some one else to take its place as soon as possible, now if the dog is naturally dominant then will step up right away with the most minimum indication of the owner not doing the best job

A dominant dog not always will want to be one, but if the dog thinks the owner is a poor leader then somebody else has to do it, there is nothing wrong about it, is natural, even humans would feel that way, people might think their company's president sucks but they are not whilling to take his/her place, other people will think that they might do a poor job also but at least will be better than the current one and others will feel they definately can do a better job, depends on the person's nature

So like i said before, the lack of rules, boundries and limitations might open a "pandora's box" depending on the dog's nature, and at least 2/3 of the times will bring a dominant dog with it, regardless if they want to be one or not, or how much confident they are

ps. Cogito ergo sum indeed [8D]

going with what espencer said & adding something...

if a dog senses weakness (lack of energy, control, rules & boundaries... on part of the human owner) then it will take control of those voids - these are cues the dog takes to gain dominant behavior. if no leader is present, soemthing has to fill that void - and a dog will take it (the results may not be to the owners liking in terms of expressed behavior on part of the dog)

now if the dog is naturally dominant then will step up right away with the most minimum indication of the owner not doing the best job

Good answer espencer.  For a little clarification though, what makes a dog "naturally dominant?"  I think that might be a far better question than the one I posted originally.

I'm going to just hang out and see what all is talked about in this thread

That's what I'm interested in as well.  I want to see where this discussion goes.  I don't think we've had this type of clarification here, but we use the term "dominant" alot, so I'd like to see if there is a general definition that we can establish, from a "dog owner" perspective.[]

OK, this is my personal experience what I've felt and what I've noticed with my own dog. 

I think it's hard to tell the difference at first.  Is this dog a brat face or trying to take over the house?  So, I can see how the word dominance might be overused.  And, especially if it's your first time dealing with a dog of that nature it can be really hard to read them.  In my case, I was looking at behaviors I never knew exisited!

It's a very, very fine line and she could do the same exact behavior on two different days and one day I think she's just a goofball and the next I could think she's testing me.  It's something I was able to tell once I got to know her well. 

So, I'd answer your questions at the top Ed that they could be yes or no depending on the vibe I'm getting from her.    I think any behavior I could list that I personally felt she was being dominant to me someone could come along and say well she was feeling something else.  But, they don't know her.  It varies dog to dog.  She was a dominant girl, pushy and all.  But, again, another dog might do the same thing and they aren't being that way at all maybe they are fearful, anxious, etc, etc.

  For a little clarification though, what makes a dog "naturally dominant?" 

I don't think Willow was naturally dominant. At least not at much as she was when I got her.  But, I think breed might have something to do with it.  I think she became that way after being on her own for so long with nobody to answer too. But, I do think "nuture" is more in control of the dog being this way than "nature".  
 

  if a dog senses weakness (lack of energy, control, rules & boundaries... on part of the human owner) then it will take control of those voids - these are cues the dog takes to gain dominant behavior.

 
True, and I also think that's why we hear the word "dominant" so often.  There are alot of owners out there who have always had very easy going dogs and then they try a different breed, a breed with more tendencies to want to take control. 

i've edited my last post because i was complaining about what usually happens - words being taken in absolute literal sense - but anyway... what is your take on the question you pose?

more words that come to mind here (besides state of mind) - social status (humans & dogs under "one roof" forming a pack)

ORIGINAL: lostcoyote

i've edited my last post because i was complaining about what usually happens - words being taken in absolute literal sense - but anyway... what is your take on the question you pose?

I was raised with and have been owned by dogs considered to be "dominant" dogs.  GSDs, an Akita, and now a Pharaoh Hound.  When I had the GSDs and Akita I was certain that every transgression was due to "dominance issues."  That they were challenging authority.  That was when I was into the dominance theory itself.  Now, with a Pharaoh Hound I think alot differently.  I can totally see his dominant streak as it applies to other dogs, but not as it applies to humans. 

Without going into mindless detail, I suggest that true dominance over humans is rare.  That the majority of the time it is bratty behavior that has been allowed to escalate, and that proper boundaries, rules and discipline was never instilled.

But I want to hear others opinions on dominance, and on "naturally" dominant dogs.  I want to spark discussion and learning.  That's my goal on this thread. 

I can't find the quote right now, but I like Patricia McConnell's simple statement that the dominant dog is the one who gets the bone.

As far as my own thoughts ... I like the question so much that I'm gonna think on it! []

(LOL: I wrote this an hour ago and failed to hit OK!)

That the majority of the time it is bratty behavior that has been allowed to escalate, and that proper boundaries, rules and discipline was never instilled.

i'd agree with this in general because that is what has happened between many dogs & their relationship with humans - lack of leadership on part of the human.

What makes a dog dominant?

 
tis worth a deeper investigation & i certainly don't have a correct answer other than mulling over ideas here and there... but here goes:
 
do you think that a truly dominant dog stems from hormone levels &/or some sort of brain structure that is hardwired into them?

for example, there are pleasure centers in the brain and it could possibly be that heightened pleasure center zones (more development in these areas) might lead a dog (or human) to seek social status in terms of freedom because it is the freedom and feeling of being in charge that gives the brain structure the "craving" to dominate? thus, the hard-wiring of dominant trait.

(just another avenue of thought and i am afraid that this line of thinking could fall into the category of mindless chatter you spoke of? maybe not.)

your thoughts...

I have come to believe that people say 'dominant' when they mean 'confident'. When I see dogs labelled as dominant, I often see an out-going, self-confident dog. Such animals tend to be very enterprising and learn quickly how to make their lives better. They're less bothered by a lack of boundaries and more concerned with exploiting this situation to get what they want.

Sometimes I see a frightened, unsettled dog that is trying to impose boundaries because no one else will and it thinks its own boundaries are better than none.

Most of the time, I see a dog just trying to get what it wants. I don't think your average dog even puts humans in their social hierarchy. I think they lump humans together as demi-gods that can perform magic. You don't want to mess with magicians, do you?