Almost have had it! What is with my dog?

You could force her to stay in the same room as you are in by blocking off the doors to other rooms..

 That way she will either ask to go out,or do her business in front of you.

 You do not want to yell and make a big scene if she starts to do her business without asking to go out.You will probably only scare her and make her more timid about asking.

  Instead,just keep a leash handy,and take her our without fuss..

  You sound frustrated,and I wonder if you have been consistant about taking her out when she asks.

  Properly excersized dogs can be pretty regular in their poopies,and if you adjust her feeding schedule,she may do her duty at a more convenient time too.

  Consistancy about feeding,and taking her out,without fuss,to do her business will probably help.

 A urinary infection is certainly not going to help matters.

  Keep an eye on her behavior before she has to go also..

 You can adjust her behavior,as long as you are both willing to adjust yours to help the dog...good luck..

  I hope the dog is able to stay with her family.

Step back and ask yourself what you're expecting of her.   I'm serious ... are you expecting her to 'tell' you in some way?  How careful are you to notice **when** she needs to go out? 
 
In other words -- it's not going to work to expect her to wait until YOU think to let her out.  And if you haven't taught her consistently where to go and how *you* want her to ask to go out then accidents are going to happen. 
 
This is no slap at you -- but I know that sometimes people simply expect that by a certain age the dog will always go on a schedule.  They absolutely won't.  It is, very very much so, like having a perennial 18 month old child that you are trying to toilet train.  Simply because a child has enough voice to stand there, hop around on one foot and SCREAM to get your attention to let you know they gotta go.
 
A dog won't do that.  Not ever.  They will usually tell you in some way, but if you are busy, your eyes aren't on the dog and you 'miss' their cue -- they are gonna go do the deed in the last place they successfully got away with it before. 
 
What I truly *am* telling you is that at 4 years old she's developed coping mechanisms.  If you miss her signal and she's gotta go, then she's smart enough to go where you can't SEE her because she doesn't want to get yelled at.  But if you miss her signal SHE has to go. 
 
So seriously -- the responsibility in truth lies squarely on your shoulders.  If you know you are going to be fixing dinner, being on the computer, watching TV or doing some *thing* that is going to occupy all your attention, then you need to do one of several things:
 
1.  Put a big enough bell on her collar so you *hear* when she moves;
 
2.  Gate off ALL escape routes - and if you are in a room with furniture she can hide behind -- you gotta make that not possible; or
 
3.  Leash her to you.  Yep, still.  But whatever will alert *you* to the fact that she wants something you aren't likely to respond to. 
 
+++++++
 
The other thing I'd do is sit down and think thru things a bit.  Do you routinely let her out at certain times no matter what else happens?
 
A.  After she eats -- ***anything***
 
B.  After she drinks
 
C.  After she has been asleep and wakes up -- like in the morning, after a long snooze, etc.
 
D.  After she has played hard (whether with you or a toy -- it can stimulate the urinary tract *and* the intestinal tract)
 
Those times are an absolute given. 
 
But in honest truth -- it is really, truly up to you to *watch* her that frankin close, that you will *catch* that look or whatever ~her~ signal is.
 
If you want to change that signal ... after 4 years it's going to be tough but it can be done.  Either put a bell on a long cord attached to the door, install a spring doorstop next to each doorway -- but give her some way to make a noise and **train YOU** to know she has to go. 
 
Every time you take her out -- you gently pick up her paw and ring the bell.  Maybe you set it up with your spouse so that if YOU ring the bell he comes running to "let you out".  But frankly it's gotta be majorly consistent. 
 
She's not going to suddenly develop a new habit about "letting you know".  It really, truly has to be you who notices and who is tuned in to her wavelength enough to see that she has to go.
 
But preventing her from screwing up -- you don't just do that while you are 'training'.  You do that every day of her life.
 
My dogs aren't young.  Billy is almost 8-9, Kee is probably over 12, Luna is 4.   All are rescues - I didn't 'housetrain' ANY of them. Billy simply heads for the kitchen, then he'll back track and 'look' around the corner at me.  Luna will jump up at my side and wrap her paws around my arm (like she's gonna drag me away).  Kee -- on the rare occasions when she can't get Billy or Luna to ask FOR her will bark.
 
Years ago, Foxy the Mostlie Sheltie -- like at the age of 15 -- just could *not* hld it as well as before -- I started to have to be completely infallible about letting them "out" ****IMMEDIATELY**** after eating.    I mean, I just plain couldn't leave the kitchen -- he had to go without fail. 
 
A uti is gonna foul everything up -- and some drugs can make that pattern continue both with pee and poop. 
 
How much water is she drinking?  still a lot?  You may need to take her bac for another urine culture and make sure there isn't still something lingering.
 
A dog that is infallible about holding it is trained.  And thus far you have a dog who has not learned to 'hold it' very long -- she is ***used to*** relieving herself any time the need strikes.  So you just plain have to prevent that at all costs.  And because it's something that has slipped thru the cracks and has never been learned infallibly, then it isn't that she hasn't 'learned' or is in some way defective, it's trulyu on your head to make sure she doesn't screw up.  And the length of time you are going to have to be ultra vigilant is going to be even longer because she's learned so well how to elude you and just go somewhere.
 
My guess is that in the past you've made a real effort at training and she got 'better' -- and because YOU were noticing her more things were successful.  But the instant you aren't tune into her and you aren't making that extra effort she reverts back to what she did before.  You may always have to have this dog *consistently* in the same room with you with no 'escape'.
 
Now, are my dogs 'reliable' -- yes, ***but*** (huge, magnificent, hairy BUT)
 
But, my dogs are always in the same room with me.  No, we don't leave the bedroom ungated.  No we don't leave the kitchen ungated -- they stay in the room with me.  So I *do* notice when they gotta go.  It forces me to notice when they are active and walking around. 
 
What do you do with a mess when you find it?
 
You put her somewhere she can't watch you.  You go snag that waste in paper towel and you take it outside and **lay it down** where you want her to go.  You go back in and you leash her and walk at a fast clip past the "crime scene" and you say:
 
"Do **not** potty here.  No!"
 
You keep her walking at that fast clip right outside TO that paper towel where her waste is now.  You point to it and say:
 
"Here -- I moved it here.  You go HERE, not in my house!"
 
And you do this every single solitary time you find she has screwed up.  From now until Doomsday.  You don't ever just "tsk tsk" and get a bit angry that she screwed up and clear it up.
 
No -- you USE that accident to reinforce your point that she doesn't go *here* but rather *OUT there!*.
 
I'm not fussing at you but I suspect someone, sometime has led you to believe that at some point in time you can relax and they'll be housetrained and phew, that's over.
 
It's never ever over. 
 
 
If she does everything perfectly for three weeks -- you can't let up.  If you find an 'accident' then -- you go thru all the same steps - but you also kick yourself because you weren't careful enough not to let her screw up.
 
Does that make sense??

Callie, no offense, I understand the thought behind your post. But I would make things much less emotional than that, just for the sake of getting it done. There are only three things to know:

1. Dogs who are not housetrained by their owners don't get "sold", especially at 4 years old. They usually die in a shelter. It's your responsibility, OP, to housetrain your dog, because it is very possible that her life depends on it.

2. Your dog just isn't housetrained yet.

3. But don't worry. Housetraining is a straightforward process and you can do it!

Housetraining 101:

*From now until your dog is 100% reliable, your dog is always under your direct supervision in your house. If you cannot *directly* watch your dog, she is either tethered to you or in a crate.

*Give your dog the opportunity to go outside in a specific spot many times a day--every hour or two. PRAISE AND TREAT LAVISHLY WITH A HIGH VALUE TREAT WHEN YOUR DOG DOES WHAT YOU WANT.

*Your dog should never, ever get another opportunity to practice peeing or pooping in the house because you always, always directly supervise your dog.

*If you do slip up, this is your fault. Do not punish your dog. The reason for this is simple. If you punish your dog you could wind up training your dog not to pee or poo in front of you. That would cause no end of problems!!!

Remember that your dog has no idea about concepts like "inside" and "outside" and has no idea what you are trying to tell her. It's not her fault that she pees and poops in the house, it's yours. So take responsibility and be very clear:

PEEING AND POOING OUTSIDE = FANTASTIC THINGS HAPPEN

Your dog will want to save it up for all those fantastic things. Then fade the fantastic things, offering them occasionally.

You can do it!

If she were only peeing I would suggest maybe she has incontinence.   Incontinence in female dogs is not rare, especially those who have been fixed and a Vet can prescribe medication that MAY help.  But going poop too proves it probably isn't.  It is not going to be easy, I have a pug who will sneak off too when the weather conditions aren't acceptable to her (snow, rain, cold) so we don't allow her the run of the house without closely supervising her – especially under bad weather conditions.  I would double check that the UTI is cleared up too; sometimes they need a second go around of meds.  Good luck and I know your frustrated, I get the same way when my little one does that stuff but when she does I know it was my fault.  I crate her at night and when were not home or too busy to watch her.  We also have the luxury of having a wonderful large fenced in yard so letting her out often is easy and doesn't always require a walk.  But you really need to manger her and watch her and take her out often.
 
I agree with fisher, it isn't easy but you can do it!!  

Fisher it all depends on how it 'hits' you -- to *me* your post is far more 'emotional' than mine.  I need to know -- when something fails repeatedly -- why.  If it's me who has the dog with the housetraining problem, I'd read your post and say "I've done all that and she still isn't trained.  Why?"
 
Sooooo, my point is somewhere between yours and mine, she finds the answer. 
 
One small note -- and I know this is a difference in training methods.  But I never ever offer a 'treat' for going outside -- because most dogs will then just expect a treat for going right in front of you inside on the Persian rug. 
 
I also realize mine is not all "positive training".  Showing a dog the spot they went and saying "No, no there!" isn't necessarily positive but it is instructional.  But getting all excited and having a "Yippee!!" party outside when the dog does go **is** critical and I didn't make enough of a point of that. 
 
A 4 year old dog isn't a small puppy.  And at this point she has to get it thru to this dog that housetraining isn't something that only happens when Mom's really on the ball and she'll 'get over it' and things will go back to where they were.  You really do have to always keep them accountable and never let them be 'alone' to screw up.

I apologize, I didn't actually read all of Callie's long post (I've got to run out and move sheep in about five minutes), so I don't now whether this was touched upon.

Teeny dogs live in a big giant world. I've noticed my teeny dog honestly seems to forget that the inside isn't part of the outside, if given the chance. The older she gets the more of the house she understands isn't part of the outside. She's three now and can keep about 400 square feet clean by choice, if I'm consistent about letting her out on a fair schedule.

They also have waste systems the size of a baby food jar, total. Their bladders are approximately the size of a peanut, or smaller, depending on the dog. And yet they have incredibly high pitched metabolisms. I struggled for a while with my chinese crested, and then I just started treating her like a three or four month old puppy that can't hold it for long. It's only fair. She didn't choose to be tiny.

Remember the rules for a puppy. Not only once every couple hours, but also after eating or drinking, after playing, and after rising from a nap.

You also need to restrict the area your dog has access to. She sounds like she's got really set in habits so you may have to walk around with her on a leash tied to you for a week or so to get her into the new routine. Then, use baby gates to restrict her to the single room you are in. Then, let her have that room and a room you can also watch. You may have to do that for another year or so - potty habits are hard to break.

Crate her when you are out or can't watch her really well.

Clean up everything she's soiled really well, with an enzyme based cleaner for the pee spots especially.

Finally, follow the good advice you've had to retrain her to prefer the outside. Use a code word to let her know she's in the right place to "go" (this is really useful when you travel with her too). Keep her on a leash to help keep her mind on why you are out there, until she goes (that also helps make the reward more fun - dogs usually catch on that peeing = freedom very quickly).

I don't make any big deal about accidents once I've started training, personally. My philosophy is, it's my fault. I don't, don't, don't want the dog to be nervous about eliminating in front of me - I travel so much with my dogs that this would be a real pain. I have not, however, ever seen a dog that expected either treat or praise or other reward for accidents. And I've house broken a lot of dogs. []

Good luck! I highly recommend a wonderful little book just for owners like you and me, of little dogs. Little Dogs, Training Your Pint-Sized Companion, by Deborah Woods. There's sections on trouble shooting, obedience training, and training her to do tricks that will make her the life of the party!

"I've done all that and she still isn't trained.  Why?"

No offense intended, but there is usually some aspect of the housetraining process that was either unaddressed, or overlooked, when a dog doesn't train.  Dogs just want to relieve themselves and don't understand that carpet or the dining room floor means all that much to the humans...unless they have been scolded for "accidents" in the past (accidents are not accidents, they are the result of the human failing to supervise the dog - most dogs get freedom in the house wayyyyy too soon, and it causes them to fail).
Do review what happened during the time you tried to housetrain your dog.  fisher's housebreaking 101 is the way it should have gone.  If it didn't, you can go back to square one.  Just don't sabotage your own efforts by allowing the dog house privileges too soon.  Keep her tethered to you or crated - exercise is given outdoors.  And, be sure to reward her for doing her biz in the right spot.  Sometimes, we are in such a hurry to correct the problem behavior, we forget what tells the dog that she is right!  (When you reward, though, make sure she has finished, or you could end up with a dog that cuts off her urine stream to get the cookie!).  You really can do this, but it requires diligence and consistency (use the same word for "outside" each time). 
This is a dog that should not be given any freedom yet, so that you won't be stepping in those "nuggets and puddles".  By allowing her to make her own decisions, you are setting her up to fail, not succeed.  Keeping her under your supervision means that you will not have to scold, or scoop, in the house.  And, clean up any already soiled areas with "Petastic" so that she will not be attracted back to those favorite areas. (Hint: If you can't find them all, use a black light.)  If she isn't fully trained by the time you move (and moving can set her back a bit - be prepared) then you may want to invest in an ex pen or baby gate so that you can confine her to an area that is not carpeted.

What do you do with a mess when you find it?

You put her somewhere she can't watch you. You go snag that waste in paper towel and you take it outside and **lay it down** where you want her to go. You go back in and you leash her and walk at a fast clip past the "crime scene" and you say:

"Do **not** potty here. No!"

You keep her walking at that fast clip right outside TO that paper towel where her waste is now. You point to it and say:

"Here -- I moved it here. You go HERE, not in my house!"

And you do this every single solitary time you find she has screwed up. From now until Doomsday. You don't ever just "tsk tsk" and get a bit angry that she screwed up and clear it up.

No -- you USE that accident to reinforce your point that she doesn't go *here* but rather *OUT there!*.

I'm not fussing at you but I suspect someone, sometime has led you to believe that at some point in time you can relax and they'll be housetrained and phew, that's over.

It's never ever over.

 
Man Cally that's a really weird approach. You think dogs understand english? And what do you mean, it's never ever over? dogs get housebroken and then they are housebroken. At least in one house. Often you have to start over from scratch with each new building.
 
I don't like the "expect the dog to tell you when the dog needs to go out" approach. what happens when you aren't home? what happens if your dog starts "lying" just to get to go outside every five minutes? How does the dog ever learn to control his body if every time he feels the need you take him out?  dogs need to learn to hold it for longer and longer periods.
I expect a housebroken dog to hold it until I decide it's time to go out. If the dog has any accidents, it's my fault for not taking the dog out often enough. It's not the dogs fault, ever. The dog didn't screw up, you did. Your dog should never be given the opportunity to have an accident out of your sight because you never let a non-housebroken dog out of your sight.

How is that a weird approach? Seems pretty standard to me... I think everyone in this thread is saying the same things, only differently. Different strokes and all that, one approach isn't necessarily more "right" than another - now Sweetbon has a lot of different methods to choose from.

Some anecdotes from our experience with our dogs.

Shadow was an outside dog who moved into an apartment.  She peed, like 3 times a day.  She was notorious for holding it forever.  Not sure why, that's just the way it was.  Fast forward to a couple years ago and she started peeing in the house.  They were restricted on water intake during the day when we weren't home and she would drink and drink and drink when we got home.  So she had to go.  But we'd never learned her signals and she'd never learned how to tell us, so she'd just go.  Since she was so good at holding it as a pup and just went when we let her out, it wasn't a problem.  But as she aged and had to go, she couldn't hold it as long.  (there may be some underlying condition but all blood tests show nothing abnormal but she can't dilute urine any more)  So we had to reteach each other when she was 6 years old after 4 years of living inside. 

Pepper came to us as an adult and was mostly housetrained except in the mornings after eating.  I had to adjust my schedule a bit and let them out before eating because of that.    We taught each other and we watched them diligently.  Now, all 4 will come ask to go out when needed but we are sure to let them out frequently.  I figure if I have to go, then they must too!!

I don't think it#%92s weird either.  I also don't think that Calley is trying to tell the OP to tell her dog, she is writing what should be in her head while she does these things.  When my pug poops in the house, I take it and her outside and do the same thing.  I put it down and I do tell her "here#%92s were we poop" Not that I expect her to understand my words, but I am human and do use words!
 
Everyone is saying the same thing and I think it is what the OP has been being told all along.  There is no magic cure, you have to train this dog and it requires commitment and management.  Picking apart semantics#%92 like "your dog doesn#%92t understand English" only confuses things.  The bones of the post is excellent and the message and methods were clear. 
 
If the OP dosen't like the suggestion on how to train the dog then there are plently of books out there on Potty training weather it be a 4 month old or a 4 year old dog the training is the same.

Yes, MudPuppy I DO think dog's can learn to understand "English".  They learn "sit" "down" "come" ... and they learn a whole lot of other words that simply just become commands.
 
You tell them what you expect -- you **teach** them.
 
When I asked what she does with a mess when she finds it -- that was a separate question from what follows.  Because what she does when she finds soil IS going to hold the key to how to retrain this.
 
You're absolutely right -- it is never the dog's fault.  But when the dog isn't understanding what you want, and YOU aren't understanding what the dog is tryin to tell you -- you've got to break that down and communicate.  And since we're supposedly the smarter ones, we have to make the extra effort to communicate with them.
 
You teach them "No don't go here".  You teach them "Yes, HERE.  I moved it HERE".  You say the words but your actions also speak louder than words.
 
I happen to think dogs are intelligent.  I also happen to think that most of us humans have a terrifically inflated view of how much smarter we are than dogs. 
 
I majored in psych in college -- trust me, I understand behavioral psych and I understand operant conditioning.  However -- I also know sometimes you have to stop and figure out why this "conditioning" isn't working.  And it isn't EVER the dog's fault.  That's absolutely true. 
 
However -- we have to figure out how to communicate with them, and for the 'smarter' species we're often pretty bad at figuring out how to communicate with our best friends.
 
And trust me -- they understand a huge range of vocabulary when you teach them.  Yesterday my husband and I were discussing how to 'do' certain things because it was the 4th and I didn't want them left at home when it was crazy outside.  Essentially my husband said that yeah, after he got done in the bathroom we'd go so and so and they could stay in the car with me because the car would be running and the air would be on blah blah blah .
 
The dogs sat and stared at him while he shaved.  He did the rest of what he had to do, flushed the toilet and came out.
 
He turned around and said "where are the dogs?"
 
I said ... you said "stay in the car" and you said "after you got done in the bathroom" -- You flushed -- THEY LEFT.  go look by the door for your answer.
 
Yep -- all 3 of them waiting by the leashes.  They didn't go there until they heard the toilet flush.
 
TELL ME they don't understand English!  *grin*  And NO -- I gave them no high sign.  I was too busy typing and trying to NOT react so I could see the surprise on David's face when he came out. 
 
They'll learn whatever 'commands' and language you teach them.  It's ALL just commands to them. And if we intelligent humans actually learn their tail/ear and skin language like other dogs are expected to learn, well, then they're pretty pleased we mere humans "get it".

Sweetbon ... What do you think? Are there new ideas and approaches here that strike you as helpful?

Callie, thanks for the narrative! Often times great suggestions are offered, but the details of implementation trip us up.

Brookcove, thanks for the tiny dog's world scale perspective! []

Four years has got to be frustating! Do you have a sliding door or a fenced in yard area?  We use a sliding door insert with a dog door in it that leads to an outside fenced in area. We did need to train to use the area though (we used the methods above-except saying "no, not here" after the mess had been removed- my dogs really don't think in past tense like that- only in the now- so moving the potty and praising for doing the right thing works better for us ). Since the dog will be in your sight, you should be able to catch her in the act- make a loud noise (clap or hoot-not enought to scare, just startle and distract.)to distract here, the quickly pick her up and wisk her outside- praise if she finishes going there.   The key for us was, as the others have said, keep the dog in your sight until she is totally trustworthy-might be a very long time.  You should look at this move as an opportunity- new place, new rules, no bad habits or bad routines- I would suggest getting started on a new system and keeping it in place in the new house- the other posters are right- leash, kennel, crate. play pen- just keep the dog from continuing the undesired habit and create new, more positive ones.