Controlling Instinct or Obedience Training?

ORIGINAL: dogslife

ORIGINAL: espencer

I would have to agree that i want to see the "in between"

I do not think he is going to share.  Must be old family secret recipe!  Hee hee.

Maybe he forgot. [8|]  Brad - oh, Braaaaaad - where's the vid?

Have not forgotten. Gotta wait for the right dog to video and get my cameraman scheduled. I'll video the training from start to finish. I want a dog that has minimal or no obedience training, pulls on the leash, no focus, dominant, pushy, no respect, etc. I have a young Vizsla and her owner coming over Sunday. From talking to her on the phone, this one might fit the bill! Keep in mind, I need time to set up the smoke and mirrors too!...LOL....
 
Brad Higgins

**Content Removed**

I'm looking for a friendly, respectful forum where I can go to share training ideas. Anyone who knows of such a place could you please private message me?
 
Brad Higgins 

Since crappy dialup wont allow me to see the video, I'll only comment on what I have read......
 
From my personal experience, the best way to train a good off lead walk is to start with a drag line.  I rarely do anything other than let the drag line DRAG, but it gives me the option of stepping on one of the pre-tied knots if I need to.  Working on the drag line teaches my dogs to LISTEN to me and to respond quickly.  None of them will venture more than 50 foot ahead of me without turning around to wait or running back to me.  And this is with TONS of distractions in the woods.  And now that nicer weather has returned, we'll be going back to IN town walks since this gal is not setting foot in the woods and risking seeing a snake!  Our off lead work has led to leaps and bounds in improvement of ON lead walking as well.

ORIGINAL: adogwhisperer

I'm looking for a friendly, respectful forum where I can go to share training ideas. Anyone who knows of such a place could you please private message me?

Brad Higgins 

It's against forum rules for us to recommend the competition, but you can always post in the CM section.  **Content Removed** I don't mean any disrespect, I'm just pretty direct.

I think that you should be able to put into words what the mechanics are in how you work with your dog.  That would constitute real understanding about what you and your dog are doing.
 
Lots of people explain on this site using real terminology, on a very regular basis showing how they work with their dogs that they are teaching.  That is how we will really understand what is productively working and what is not as productive, or counterproductive.
 
Human vocabulary is important when we are trying to show each other what we do.
 
Watching video is great, and it teaches a good portion of what the man is doing to get the dogs to work along with him.  But when an important section goes missing, the inability to truly understand what he did , kind of goes out the window. 
 
We need to see, "the secret ingredient"!  ;  )

ORIGINAL: adogwhisperer

I'm looking for a friendly, respectful forum where I can go to share training ideas. Anyone who knows of such a place could you please private message me?

Brad Higgins 

Actually, this is a "friendly, respectful forum" where you can come to share training ideas. Don't let the "unfriendly" and/or "disrespectful" comments of a few members lead you to think otherwise. []

I can't view your videos, so detailed conversation works best for me personally. []

I will point you to a series of excellent articles you may find very helpful in understanding and separating common sense from all of the verbal emotional marketing propaganda many owner's and canine professionals come up against both on dog boards and in real life situations.

Regarding the term "reacting in fear", I'd start with this article by a founding member of the CAPPDT (Canadian Association of Professional Pet Dog Trainers) and member of the IACP (International Association of Canine Professionals) - Roger Hild:

[linkhttp://www3.sympatico.ca/tsuro/_articles/why_do_that.html]http://www3.sympatico.ca/tsuro/_articles/why_do_that.html[/link]

There are many articles on this site which cut through the "positive only" extremist propaganda, all worth a good look. Just hit the "back" button on the bottom of the article to get to the main page.

Enjoy! []

Brad, I sure am interested in how you accomplished this and the timeframe it took.  I have been working on a hound for the long time but I just can't overcome his short attention span.  If you can continue with the videos, that will be great.
 
My eyes are not the best.  In the first video I did not see the dog being distracted by the car and I could not see the correction.

Hope you're enjoying your session, this weekend, with that Viszla you mentioned, Brad. I also hope you'll check back in. It would be interesting to discuss your topic: "controlling instinct or obedience training?"

It suggests to me that "obedience" is conditioning the dog to accept limits on expressing his instincts and drives.

Some of what we ask dogs to do is focusing instinct. Some of what we ask is to contradict instinct.

It seems that would be a useful distinction in thinking about the appropriateness of different techniques. For example, would some of the subtle adjustments that occur during a walk, would be lost on a dog who's energy and drive are worked up on an agility course? And, conversely, would some of the grosser gestures required for high drive/energy be work be overkill on a walk?

ORIGINAL: Angelique
Actually, this is a "friendly, respectful forum" where you can come to share training ideas. Don't let the "unfriendly" and/or "disrespectful" comments of a few members lead you to think otherwise. ...
 
There are many articles on this site which cut through the "positive only" extremist propaganda, all worth a good look. 

I suggest that we all avoid inflammatory verbage.  The hrase "extremist propaganda" is just as inflammatory as anything else said on this thread.
 
All forums are going to have individuals with strong opinions.  That is just the way the world works.  If a person easily gives up when their opinions are challenged, then they need to work on their own self confidence. 
 
I think there is a time and a place for prong collars.  If someone uses them in other situations, then that person will have to work a little harder to ersuade me to value their other training ideas because a doubt has been raised.  If the person doesn't believe in their own techniques enough to care to put in that effort, then I will look elsewhere for instruction.
 

Brad, I hope that you haven't been run off. I value everyone's ideas and I try to learn from them all. I too am interested in seeing the entire training video. I would like to see how you train your dogs and what methodology you have adopted. I may not use the same methods that you do, but I still enjoy seeing others' perspectives. It helps me put polishing touches on my own. Also, I assure you that this place is welcoming and friendly. But just like in the real world, there are people who harbor very strong feelings for their school of thought. And that is perfectly fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just as you are. If there are any comments posted that are possibly rude or attacking, our great moderators here will promptly take care of it. I also agree with janet, this is a two way street. The same rules should apply to everyone here. If we all try to be polite and accepting of others ideas, even if they are different from our own, this will become an even greater place then it already is. I'm looking forward to those videos Brad!

ORIGINAL: janet_rose

ORIGINAL: Angelique
Actually, this is a "friendly, respectful forum" where you can come to share training ideas. Don't let the "unfriendly" and/or "disrespectful" comments of a few members lead you to think otherwise. ...

There are many articles on this site which cut through the "positive only" extremist propaganda, all worth a good look. 

I suggest that we all avoid inflammatory verbage.  The hrase "extremist propaganda" is just as inflammatory as anything else said on this thread.

 
Dog training extremists are just a sad fact of life. []
 
Known more for their self-righteous, evangelical, emotional propaganda, and "less than kind" behavior towards those who do not believe what "they" believe, do as "they" do, or practice what "they" preach...than the beliefs themselves.
 
FYI:
 
"Cults in Dog Training"
[linkhttp://www3.sympatico.ca/tsuro/_articles/cults_training.html]http://www3.sympatico.ca/tsuro/_articles/cults_training.html[/link]
 
"The Other Side of Extremist Dog Training"
http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=318687
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: Angelique



Dog training extremists are just a sad fact of life. []

Known more for their self-righteous, evangelical, emotional propaganda, and "less than kind" behavior towards those who do not believe what "they" believe, do as "they" do, or practice what "they" preach...than the beliefs themselves.

 

I agree with you to an extent. It goes both ways. But I am still with janet on this one. There was a nicer way of saying what you said, that's all either one of us are getting at. []

[Deleted by Admins]