Dog Community

Introducing Dog and Cats

Posted : 4/21/2007 11:14:20 PM

I've been reading through some old threads, but I have some specific questions I'd like to ask regarding introducing a future dog to my current cats.

I have three cats - 2 females and 1 male, all speutered, all indoor-only. They've never known any dogs. We are adopting a dog this summer. According to the breeder, Chop ignores cats. I need to start thinking this through because how I should introduce them will affect when we pick up the dog and affect some of the timing of my vacation.

Currently, we live in an apartment that does not allow dogs. We've found a new place to live that will allow the dog, and we are set to move in August 1. My cat friends have expressed concern with me moving the cats and introducing the dog all at once. Just keep in mind that as someone who only just finished college, I've moved a LOT and my cats have moved 6 times already and don't have as mnay issues with moving as most other cats. However, this has got me thinking that it might be better to introduce the dog to the cats in the current apartment since that is their familiar environment and I want to avoid stressing them as much as possible. I don't want my cats to feel left behind in the excitement of a new dog. The dog is just filling a void that the cats can't and don't want to fill.

These are the possible scenarios:

1. We pick up Chop on July 29 because I'll already be downstate for a gymnastics competition that weekend. In this case, Chop would have to spend two days at the apartment with the cats. On August 1 we all move. On August 4 - 18, I am going on vacation to our cottage and taking Chop along because she currently has some fear of men so I am not comfortable leaving her with my husband while we should be bonding. Taking her with me means we have two weeks where I can be with her all day and really get to know each other. It's also important that she be socialized to adapt to various environments, since we enjoy going to cottages and camping and will always be taking the dog along. My husband will be at the new home with the cats since he has school all summer. They don't like the cottage and would rather be home alone or with him anyway.

2. We move on August 1 and then go down and get Chop before I leave on August 4. The cats would already be in the new place and adjusting to their new environment and then immediately have to deal with Chop.

3. I go down and get Chop when I leave for vacation on August 4. She will come on vacation with me before meeting the cats.

Which scenario is best for the dog and the cats?

Some other questions....

How do I actually introduce them? What specific techniques have worked for you guys? I know how to introduce new cats to cats, but cat social structure is totally different.

Do I have to teach the dog that the cats are higher up in the pack than she is? If so, how do I do this?

The cats will have a "cat room" (the basement) which is where they will be when I cannot supervise them with the dog. Any tips on how I show the cats that this is their safe place? Our "cat room" now contains their litter boxes, cat beds, food, water, toys, and their favorite window so this is there prefered place to be. It is not a punishment for them to be in the cat room.

The dog is crate trained. If she responds well to my crate, I might make use of her training and crate her either at night or when I'm not home (but probably not both). Would it be bad to give the cats free reign while she is crated? I don't know how that would affect the dog's psyche, her being crated and three cats being able to jump on her crate or paw at the door.

Any recommended links? The more specific, the better.

TinaK

Posted : 4/22/2007 10:21:18 AM

For me, none of the scenarios would have worked out, because it took my cat months and months to accept the dog and get over depression (her weight doubled in a matter of a few weeks). So, whatever scenario you choose depends on the temperament of your cats. I'd say, go with no.3. - pick up the dog and leave right away before introducing her to the cats. Cats need time to explore the new territory, find out where all the hiding places are, etc, etc. The dog, on the other hand, needs time to bond with you first. Once you've made this connection, you can ask her to ignore the cats... You should have more control over the dog then on the first day of getting her.
While on vocation, try playing games with the dog that involve practicing self-control. If she doesn't know STAY or LEAVE IT practice those. If she has a high prey drive, you might want to sit her down, ask her to STAY, and walk around - she is not allowed to follow. Increase distractions by moving around like a clown, then by walking around with her toy, then walking and throwing the toy around, etc. Again, if she tries to follow you, do whatever sound you do to tell her that's not what you want, and prize quietly when she holds herself back. Reward with a game, or by exploring something new, or by hiding food bits around and then looking for them together. All this is for her to bond with you, to start practicing self control, and a leader-follower relationship, which will help when meeting the cats.
Depending on the temperament of your cats, you might want to introduce her to a more calm one first, and (if possible) to a male (opposite sex). It might get a bit intense for all of you to have 3 darting screaming cats and a dog... Plus, if first introduction goes well, she'd be more likely to ignore the second and the third cat.

Liesje

Posted : 4/22/2007 4:01:59 PM

The dog, on the other hand, needs time to bond with you first. Once you've made this connection, you can ask her to ignore the cats... You should have more control over the dog than on the first day of getting her.

Thanks, I hadn't thought about this!

I think I will try to plan for option 3 if possible. Perhaps when I pick up the dog, I can leave some things behind with her scent so they can get used to it, and maybe bring along a blanket that the cats use so the dog can do the same.

I don't really know a good word to describe my cats' temperaments. They adjust very quickly. They seem to adjust to new environments immediately as long as they have me and their own toys, bed, and litter boxes. With new people, it takes a few hours to a day or two (larger or loud men take them longer), but they are not usually stressed by new people or places. I think it's because I got them all during college, so they are used to living with 5 other humans, getting new roommates every semester, lots of visitors, and moving a lot. Beckham has seen a dog when he was a kitten. He came with us to my future in-laws for Thanksgiving break and they have a Cocker. He was just a little kitten then so he stayed in the guest room with me and only saw the dog once or twice. When my friends and I moved in June of 2006, Beckham and Posh lived with my friend for a week and she has a Bichon. Basically what happened was I was on a vacation in Florida and they called to say they found a sweet deal on a rental and were going to move and move all my stuff for me and one of them would take care of my cats for me until I got back. They got used to the Bichon and as far as I know, there were no fights, but this Bichon is scared of cats so he would not start a fight. Marijke has never seen a dog, but of the three, she is by far the most outgoing and social towards people and other animals. Posh takes the most time to adjust, but she is the type that will hide until she is comfortable, not hiss at an animal and pick a fight. Beckham will probably hate the dog and will hiss at it, but hopefully not pick a fight.

I'm trying to get more info about the dog from the breeder but haven't heard from her in several days. However, I looked at their website and they are/were expecting a litter due on 4/20 so I assume she has her hands full at the moment.

Ixas_girl

Posted : 4/22/2007 8:57:56 PM

Tina, great reasoning ... I learned a bunch reading that!

There's a good thread about "claiming" stuff to be yours when you don't want the dog to mess with it, it can be cats, kids, socks, or whatever. It's a Millan term and techinque, and is related to NILIF.

The discussion in on: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DogWhispererFans/ ... go there and look for the great description of how this works on message #29357: "CLAIMING a toy / object / person".

Perhaps you can do some claiming work on vacation, so the dog is ready to understand the cats are "yours."

Liesje

Posted : 4/22/2007 10:25:37 PM

There's a good thread about "claiming" stuff to be yours when you don't want the dog to mess with it, it can be cats, kids, socks, or whatever. It's a Millan term and techinque, and is related to NILIF.

The discussion in on:http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DogWhispererFans/ ... go there and look for the great description of how this works on message #29357: "CLAIMING a toy / object / person".

Perhaps you can do some claiming work on vacation, so the dog is ready to understand the cats are "yours."

This is what confuses me, claiming vs. showing her that the cats are part of the pack (as equals I supposed). I tried Googling for links, but I have trouble knowing which ones are credible and which aren't. I found this one from a GSD rescue, so I figured it would be good since Chop is a GSD, but it says not to let them think that the cat is your possession. I guess they are saying that the dog should feel it possesses the cats? I dunno, please help me digest. The "how to" parts are easy enough to follow, but I want to really understand the psychology behind it before I decide what specific actions to take during the introduction.

http://www.sfgsrescue.org/articles/cat.htm

There's some basic principles in order for a dog and cat (or bunny or bird or whatever) to be able to live together: 1) A German Shepherd Dog's instinct to possess overrides its prey drive. But this is not true for some other breeds such as terriers, sighthounds and Ridgebacks. 2) A dog will accept a cat (or other animal) either as a possession or a pack mate if opportunity for interaction is given where the dog cannot see the cat as prey. 3) The dog must accept its owner as "alpha" and take its cue on how to treat the cat(s) from the owner. The owner, however, should not be perceived as "possessing" the cat.

Liesje

Posted : 4/22/2007 10:36:16 PM

Also, I just wanted to say that if what the breeder says is true about the dog (it's already acustomed to cats), I think the bulk of the project will be convincing the cats to feel comfortable around the dog. My old roommate had an Aussie puppy stuffed toy that Beckham actually thought WAS a puppy. I just had this thought that maybe I could find a giant GSD toy and put it in random spots so they get used to the presence of such an animal.

Another issue I can already foresee will be feeding. I'm very strict about my cats' diets and weight, so they are not free-fed but ration fed twice a day. They do steal human food when given the opportunity and I'm sure they'd have a go at a dog bowl if it smelled right. Would it make sense to include the dog in the feeding ritual, like we are ALL in the pack together? I feed my cats in the exact same order every time and each cat has their own bowl that is a different color and texture than the other cats'. Should I feed the dog fourth to reinforce to the dog that I am the pack leader and that she is not above the cats? The order of the cats is only based on who eats the fastest - the slowest eater goes first so she is done before the fast eater can steal her food, but cats don't understand packs or hierarchies. I would be careful not to feed the dog too close to the cats, in case someone went after someone else's food. Maybe on either side of a baby gate, so they can all see each other eating. Do you think a strategy like this would help?

Looks like I will have to get a prong and a muzzle. I was hoping to avoid these, but every site I read uses both in their instructions and since it will be a bigger dog I'm dealing with, I suppose I can't leave anything to chance. [>:]

Angelique

Posted : 4/23/2007 9:54:03 AM

The only things I can really add is that body positioning and how the dog sees you interact with the cats is very important, IMO.

Dogs pay close attention when entering a new social group to find out "who is who" and where do "I" fit in. Unless the dog has little respect for humans or a high prey drive towards cats, this can be used to your advantage.

You should keep this dog on a leash at all times when he is around the cats. You should keep in between him and the cats. Ignore the dog as you greet and talk to the cats, and make sure your dog picks up your demeanor towards the cats in order for him to see the cats as pack members.

Make sure everyone in the household follows this protocol.

Keep in mind that the dog (by nature) wants to be included in a social group and is looking for their place in order to feel secure. Use this to your advantage and be firm with the dog through eye contact, demeanor, body language, and firm verbal and leash boundaries.

I would definately set the cats up in the new house and get them past any skittishness over their new territory before introducing the dog. Cats are very territorial and do not make transitions to new locations as easily as dogs. You want the cats to be calm and comfortable before introducing the dog, otherwise the dog may pick up on their insecurity.

Take the dog on a long walk before entering the new home. I'm talking reeeally long. This simulates migrating to a new territory and will take the dog's energy level way down so that he will be pooped when he is around the cats for the first time.

Yes, the cats should be above the dog in the pack. It's just safer for everyone that way, IMO.

Remember, animals do pick up on our "energy". Relax, talk in low tones, don't stare at the cats, calm/serene facial expressions, slow deliberate movements, yawn, stretch, chuckle, make quiet conversation with the other humans, act bored. Think "happy" thoughts and act like you've all been living together for years. [

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TinaK

Posted : 4/23/2007 10:32:14 AM

Whether or not you will need a prong depends on the dog, and your ability to physically control her in case she decides to shoot after a cat. That's another good reason to go on vocation with your dog - you'll learn if you need a prong or not. German Sheps will most probably shoot after a street cat outside, but in general, they are excellent with house cats. They'll see them as weird antisocial creatures, but nevertheless, pack mates!

There's some basic principles in order for a dog and cat (or bunny or bird or whatever) to be able to live together: 1) A German Shepherd Dog's instinct to possess overrides its prey drive. But this is not true for some other breeds such as terriers, sighthounds and Ridgebacks. 2) A dog will accept a cat (or other animal) either as a possession or a pack mate if opportunity for interaction is given where the dog cannot see the cat as prey. 3) The dog must accept its owner as "alpha" and take its cue on how to treat the cat(s) from the owner. The owner, however, should not be perceived as "possessing" the cat.

What I think they are saying is - don't "possess" the cats, because if you possess them - herd them... Your dog will pick up on your vibes and start herding them herself. They are not a herding material though, they are pack mates.

Cats should always be at the top of the hierarchy. As Angelique said, this attitude begins with you at the moment you walk in with the dog. But also, we can't underestimate cats' abilities to show that to a dog: "UwwwrrAAAw" scratch scratch... OK, I might play with you if you're nice. [

] They are pretty good at training dog themselves, but it has to start with you, and you have to control your dog-cat interactions closely the first week or so, depending on how it goes.

Feeding is an important ritual. Dogs like cat food (it's food), but cats a lot of the times, don't care about theirs. Letting your dog eat cat food can have a negative effect on their liver, so don't let your dog do it. Feed the cats in their sanctuary (or somewhere high where they can jump up), and your dog separately. But, you have to give them treats through out the day at the same time - hand-feed both cats and the dog together. In my house, I give them a shout, the cat might decide she doesn't feel like coming, so I come up to her with the dog at my side. I sit the dog first, tell him to STAY. He watches me hand feed the cat, then I hand feed him right after her. We are sharing food... and that's what pack members do, they share resources and you are in charge. [

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Liesje

Posted : 4/23/2007 11:37:57 AM

Feeding is an important ritual. Dogs like cat food (it's food), but cats a lot of the times, don't care about theirs. Letting your dog eat cat food can have a negative effect on their liver, so don't let your dog do it. Feed the cats in their sanctuary (or somewhere high where they can jump up), and your dog separately. But, you have to give them treats through out the day at the same time - hand-feed both cats and the dog together. In my house, I give them a shout, the cat might decide she doesn't feel like coming, so I come up to her with the dog at my side. I sit the dog first, tell him to STAY. He watches me hand feed the cat, then I hand feed him right after her. We are sharing food... and that's what pack members do, they share resources and you are in charge.

Unfortunately, my cats LOVE dog food, ANY food so feeding is going to have to be super closely monitored. I bet the cats will do a better job of keeping the dog out of their food. It takes the slowest cat only about 2 minutes to eat her portion. They never walk away from their bowls or let anyone try to get at their bowls, so the dog would have to maime a cat to get some cat food. Our new house has this weird cupboard in one of the rooms, it's a door higher up on the wall and you'd think it would have the fuse box inside, but it's actually a small cabinet. I'm going to keep all pet foods in there since no animal could get up there and open the door.

My cats know the word "treat" and "time to eat!" so I should be able to do the treat thing and get them having their treats together. They all know their names and nicknames and usually come when I call because they might get a treat.

TinaK

Posted : 4/23/2007 1:52:27 PM

ORIGINAL: Liesje

Unfortunately, my cats LOVE dog food, ANY food so feeding is going to have to be super closely monitored. I bet the cats will do a better job of keeping the dog out of their food. It takes the slowest cat only about 2 minutes to eat her portion.

Heh, your cats are not picky. Mine walks past the dog's food with a face like that -> [:'(]

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Liesje

Posted : 4/23/2007 3:30:10 PM

Heh, your cats are not picky.

Nope! They will eat anything that hits the floor, comes out of the trash or sink, or is in any sort of dish, bowl, plate, or cup. If it's a non-edible item, they'll spit it out. Chew first, ask later is their motto.

Ixas_girl

Posted : 4/24/2007 1:29:22 AM

I posted a querry on the other discussion list to see if any useful claiming info comes up for you.

A dog will accept a cat (or other animal) either as a possession or a pack mate if opportunity for interaction is given where the dog cannot see the cat as prey.

So, the dog views a cat as either a part of his pack, as his possession, or as prey? Are there other options? And if something belongs to the humans (objects, rooms in the house, food, other pets) the dog will automatically assume possesion of these things and exercise control over them (herd them , eat them, use them)?

Interesting about establishing cats as being higher in pack ranking. I guess you'd also do things like letting cats on furniture, but not dogs?

I plan on getting a cat someday, but Ixa will take much training for that. It sounds like having the cat first is a huge advantage, or perhaps even a necessity.

Liesje

Posted : 4/24/2007 8:11:50 AM

I posted a querry on the other discussion list to see if any useful claiming info comes up for you.

Thanks!

So, the dog views a cat as either a part of his pack, as his possession, or as prey? Are there other options? And if something belongs to the humans (objects, rooms in the house, food, other pets) the dog will automatically assume possesion of these things and exercise control over them (herd them , eat them, use them)?

Yeah, at least that's what I'm understanding. The cats are either prey, a possession (thus something to be herded), or part of the pack. Maybe part of possession relates to guarding and defending? If the cats are my possession, the dog will think I have to guard my resources or than I'm not going to share, or she should try to "get" my stuff for herself?

Interesting about establishing cats as being higher in pack ranking. I guess you'd also do things like letting cats on furniture, but not dogs?

I think so. I guess my process will hopefully be something like this:

Activity 1:
- Get the cats in a room and give them some treats
- Bring in the dog on a prong
- Dog has to sit and lay down
- The cats may walk around and approach the dog
- The dog may sniff the cats, but needs to stay down
- If she acts aggressively, or gets a bit too interested in them, she will be corrected. If she is acting right after the correction, she will get treats
- If this goes well, I position myself between the dog and cats and give them treats from my hand
- Let them check each other out for as long as they are acting OK

Activity 2:
- Crate the dog
- Make sure she is settled down and OK being crated
- Enter cats, allow cats to investigate her
- If she acts up in the crate, verbally correct her
- If she don't listen to verbal corrections, end activity, otherwise, let cats explorer her for a while

Activity 3:
- Feed the cats so that the dog can see, but cannot get at them to try to steal food
- Make sure the dog sees THEY are getting fed first
- Then feed the dog in proximity of the cats, but not where they could try to steal her food

Activity 4:
- If the dog does well with the above and shows no interest in attacking the cats, give her more slack on the lead
- Have her perform some tricks and commands for treats while the cats are in the room
- Reward her for looking at/sniffing a cat and then turning away, NOT getting to focused on the cat and not ignoring it completely

Some things I've learned to pay close attention to
- I can't stroke or hold/carry the cats around for a while or she will think they are possessions
- It's OK for them to sniff at each other and even bark a little bit - I can't be too nervous or over protective
- I'm supposed to muzzle the dog for the first interactions, but I've never used a muzzle and frankly am not really comfortable with it, so I will use a prong because I've used them before and know how they work
- Most sites say to crate the dog while the cats are investigating it, but I think this depends on how the dog acts in her crate and whether she will listen to a verbal correction. I'd prefer she sit and stay or lay down and stay outside the crate if she is good with these commands.
- The cats will have a closed off area of the house where the dog will not be allowed
- The dog must understand that the cats are in my "pack"
- Positioning is important and when giving treats I have to be between the cats and the dog

TinaK

Posted : 4/24/2007 10:20:22 AM

And if something belongs to the humans (objects, rooms in the house, food, other pets) the dog will automatically assume possesion of these things and exercise control over them (herd them , eat them, use them)?

I don't think that's the case with all dogs. I am guessing it's breed-specific, and, since German Sheps are herding dogs, that would make sense. Not sure what they mean by "possession" in this context... It's not an object, but it's not your pack -mate, something that a pack owns? Folks who own working herding dogs will be able to answer that.

TinaK

Posted : 4/24/2007 10:46:03 AM

Liesje, Do you know where the dog is coming from? What's her temperament like? Have you owned a dog similar to this before (in size, etc.)?