Please help with dog aggressive dog

    • Bronze

    Please help with dog aggressive dog

    I am here to ask advice on introducing a dog aggressive dog to a fearful dog.  I submitted my question to another forum and tried to copy it here but I couldn't so I have attached a .txt document with the original question.  I am really in an awful situation here so if anyone can help or offer advice please do.  I can't let my dog be euthanized but I also can't allow my mother's dog to be hurt.

    Awaiting your thoughts
    • Gold Top Dog
    Can you be more explicit about what you mean when you say Karma goes crazy on other dogs?  Has she ever drawn blood? 
    Was she socialized with other dogs when she was little - say between the ages of 10 weeks and 4 months of age?  Is she spayed? 
     
    Both Akitas and Pit Bulls, especially unsocialized ones, can be very dog aggressive to the point of dangerousness.  My advice would be not to take any chances and get a professional trainer or behaviorist to help you.
    Normally, when introducing dogs, one would pick a neutral location, not either dog's home turf.  Also, you would leave leashes on, just dragging, so that you could extricate the dogs from each other quickly and without getting your hands between them, if you had to. 
    If you are really afraid of your dog's reaction, spend a couple of days acclimating her to a basket muzzle, and have her wear it during the intro. 
    FYI, when females fight, and keep fighting, it's usually much worse than when males do it.  Males tend to be ritualistic, and rarely kill one another.  Not so with b*&%$ fights.  If you really think your dog is dog aggressive, not just reactive (barks, lunges, snarls, or all three, but no blood is drawn & no actual bites, just noise), please get help from a pro, and don't take chances.
    Find trainers here:
    [linkhttp://www.apdt.com]www.apdt.com[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.nadoi.com]www.nadoi.com[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.clickertraining.com]www.clickertraining.com[/link]
    Behaviorists:
    [linkhttp://www.animalbehavior.org]www.animalbehavior.org[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.certifiedanimalbehaviorist.com]www.certifiedanimalbehaviorist.com[/link]
    [linkhttp://www.iaabc.org]www.iaabc.org[/link]
    HTH - Good Luck 
    • Gold Top Dog
    If you read any of my post on agression and my dog you will see I have gone through so much to heal my dog's dog agression. It really is something you can't fix overnight and introducing an agressive dog to anouther dog of any kind is so difficult.

    The only way I was even abel to get a start on it was to take her to a trainer. Right off the back the trainer saw what was going on and started me on the long road of calming my dog. Maybe ever make an apointment with a trainer to introduce the two dogs.
    • Bronze
    Karma was never socialized with dogs  when she was a puppy.  She is spayed as is my mother's dog. She has gone through many different homes and was abused in all of them except for ours.  She lived with one other dog when she was about a year old (she is three now) and they apparently got along fine although I don't know the details or how they were introduced.

    Now when she encounters a dog her hackles immediately raise and she growls barks and lunges.  This can be at a dog that is way down the street or a few feet away.  She has the same reaction towards puppies as to adult dogs. 

    My ex used to let her loose in our apartment's parking lot late at night because that was the only time she could get off leash to chase a ball or stick without the danger of another dog appearing.  However one night another dog did appear and my ex told me that Karma raced towards the dog but then stopped just short of it and then came back to him when he called her.  Once she was back by his side she began barking and growling.

    We took her to a trainer and he taught us about distraction when she sees another dog, getting her to sit and eat a treat, but that didn't work.  She didn't ever come near to attacking us but she totally ignored her commands and the food once she was aware of another dog in the vicinity.  The trainer also brought out one of his dogs during a session to gauge Karma's reaction and he said it was pretty severe.

    I would love to able to take this inroduction between the two dogs slowly but I have no option to do so as my ex will be putting Karma down if I don't pick her up and bring her to my mom's asap.  He was really no help when Karma went to the trainer and I doubt he will take the time now to get her used to a muzzle before I pick her up.

    I asked a friend what to do in this situation and they said the fast and dirty way would be to keep alternating the two dogs in a crate and to not let either loose until they totally ignore each other in this situation.  Then to take them both out and introduce them on leash, if that goes well then off leash with a barrier between them like a screen door or fence.  Does this sound like good advice? 

    • Gold Top Dog
    10 days isn't alot of time for a drastic change in a dog's behavior.  Like spiritdogs says, obtain a basket muzzle and get your girl used to wearing it.  It is going to take alot of time and keeping separate these two dogs before you'll be able to let them share the same room supervised.
     
    A behaviorist would help you out tremendously.
    • Bronze
    Hey Xerxes, I am not sure you totally understand the situation.  I have 10 (well 9 days now) days to pick my dog up from my ex's house and bring her here.  He is totally unwilling to assist me in anyway by getting her prepared for this big change.  In 9 days I will be going there to pick her up and bring her to my mom's.  Once she is here I have unlimited time get her introduced to my mom's dog but I don't know the best way to do that.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I wish I had more experience with this BUT i do know that you have to introduce them in a nuetral area, NIOT at your mothers. Maybe a enclosed park or a school that is out for the summer.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    My dog is also dog aggressive, and did not respond well to the distraction technique....it would "kind-of" work until the dog was about 70 yards away, and for 6+ months we could not progress past that point, so I decided to try something else.

    What I found works well is getting the dog into a position in which they feel comfortable. An obedience position, a "sit" or a "down".  For Ginny, I make her "sit" when the other dog approaches. If I need to make her sit at 50 yards (when I can see her start crouching and hackles rising) then so be it - we will sit. If she keeps the sit and simply watches the other dog pass, she gets praise. If she lunges or breaks position, she gets a stern verbal reprimand. I have found that keeping her in this position to be much more effective. I don't know what it is about it, but I think it calms her down.
    • Gold Top Dog
    If I need to make her sit at 50 yards (when I can see her start crouching and hackles rising) then so be it - we will sit. If she keeps the sit and simply watches the other dog pass, she gets praise. If she lunges or breaks position, she gets a stern verbal reprimand. I have found that keeping her in this position to be much more effective. I don't know what it is about it, but I think it calms her down.

     
    You are correct that this can work, but it doesn't always work because the dog is "calm".  It works because breaking the stay and angering the handler is more intimidating than being in a subordinate position to the approaching dog.  Some dogs, who are more fearful of the approaching dog than they are of their handlers will *still* break, and the result is usually more anger from the handler.  Sometimes the situation escalates until the dog is being physically forced into a down by an angry handler and retaliates.  I'm not saying that's what is happening with your dog, but I don't want to give others the false hope that they can just put their dogs in an "obedience position" and automatically have a dog that is no longer reactive.  Each situation needs to be assessed on its own merits.  The reason desensitization or abandonment training (see the tape by Trish King - Marin Humane Society) is advised so frequently is that it takes a long time, but usually no harm comes to either dog or handler:-))
    • Gold Top Dog
    P.S.  The reason you got stuck may be this - it is already too late once the hackles rise.  In desensitization training, I would have told you to back up and get her attention at a point before that happens.  You just went too fast and her critical distance was apparently a long one.