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No idea if this is medical or behavioral

Posted : 8/20/2006 4:47:09 PM

At the age of 12 weeks, Ben started, pretty much overnight, to whine at the door when he needed to go out. In the past 7 weeks he hadn't had a single accident - until last night. Of course when he stopped having accidents, we started to give him more freedom around the house, but he is still crated when unsupervised.
Last night SO and I were going from the living room into the dining room and Ben was following us. I turned around and there was Ben, just getting up from a squat above a big puddle on the floor. I moved him away from the puddle, took him into the kitchen, crated him and cleaned up out of view. I sprayed the entire area with enzymatic cleaner and even put the paper towels I had used out in the trash outside.

Tonight I was on the couch with Ben at my feet. SO went upstairs (the stairs are open plan but divide my living and dining rooms) and Ben ran into the dining room to look up the stairs to see where SO went. He was just grabbing something from his office and coming back down again, so 30 seconds later he came down to see Ben at the bottom of the stairs, again just finishing a pee.

Both times happened at about the same time at night, though I have no idea if or why that could be a factor. Tonight he had been outside FIVE minutes before it happened. He hadn't peed, but was outside with my SO and he does "know" to go outside. Or at least I thought he did.

His routine hasn't changed, he even whines at the door to go outside when he is at strange houses (like my future in-laws), his energy level is fine and he doesn't seem to be ill, though I will of course not rule out a medical issue here. The only thing I have noticed that is different is Ben has been getting "aroused" a LOT more recently, but surely at 4.5 months he is not yet reaching puberty and wouldn't be marking yet, would he?

I am desperate for thoughts here. I am worried about him.

Kate

dogslyfe

Posted : 8/20/2006 6:02:19 PM

At 4-1/2 months old, I wouldn't be terribly surprised at an occasional accident. Has he been drinking any more than usual? I'm wondering if it would help to lessen his freedom some. The fact that he peed out of sight of you and SO makes me think two things - he's not completely reliable yet, and he's probably waiting too long, and then he has to go RIGHT NOW!!! You may want to lessen his freedom some, watch him more carefully, and take him out just a little more often.

If he's making huge puddles it doesn't sound as much like marking to me. There is, however, always the possibility of a UTI. Two accidents with a 4-1/2 month old pup, however, wouldn't make me wonder about a UTI that quickly.

calliecritturs

Posted : 8/20/2006 10:16:34 PM

They OFTEN regress during housetraining, but that being said, it's also a good possibility that there's a UTI, and that thot is fueled by the mention that he'd just been out.

With puppies there's no way to *know* if it's behavioral or medical without checking it out. Good thot on both sides.

The danger is that as they mature a bit they play harder and get more interested in everything so when they first go out they stop and pee and ... OH WOW LOOKIT THAT!!! - they go tearing off attention riveted on something else and forget totally to *finish* going. Then they go tearing off inside and Oh ... I FURGOT!! and suddenly they're wetting on the floor.

Don't waste those towels -- you're absolutely right not to let him 'see' you clean up, but take those towels OUTSIDE and put them where you want him TO go. Then patiently go get him ON leash, and march him past the scene of the crime and say "no, not there -- OUTside!" and proceed directly to where *you* moved the mess to. "Yep, that's yours -- go HERE!" It reinforces the point.

You may want to watch him potty -- particularly if he tries to pee and then stops ... and then goes a few more feet to go again -- that could be UTI. But if he's ramming around playing most of the time then it may be time to reinforce that you're out there for a REASON. And before you come in you need to try again!!

Just letting them out can bite you -- because you can't control what they're doing. It might be time to back step in training just a bit and take him out ON LEASH for a day or three -- to reinforce that hey -- you're out here to DO something not play!! Get done and *then* I'll let you play for a while!!!

But collecting a sample for the vet to analyze is NOT a bad thing to do.

spiritdogs

Posted : 8/21/2006 8:10:32 AM

During your original housetraining, was he ever scolded by SO for pee'ing indoors? That might explain his not doing it in front of the human. If that is the case, it might help to caution SO not to scold, but to have SO participate in a little retraining. So, pup is leashed to SO, SO takes him out and praises him for going, etc. If he doesn't go outside, he should be crated for a few minutes, then SO takes him out again. The fact that SO had him out, then let him back in to have freedom in the house is a contributor to the problem. The pup had just been playing outside...and as we know, they usually have to pee after eating, drinking, waking, and playing. HTH

Benedict

Posted : 8/21/2006 8:23:55 AM

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

It may just have been too much freedom too soon. I thought he would now be ok for a minute or 2 on his own (the most he is ever unsupervised, without being crated) but maybe not. He's whining at the door again today, but I'll keep a close eye on him tonight.

Is it possible that he has developed an aversion to going to the back of the yard (his spot) when it's dark out?

He doesn't seem to be peeing, then stopping, then peeing again - so maybe not a UTI, but I'll keep a close eye on that. Thanks for the advice there, Callie.

Anne - he wasn't actually outside playing - this happened about 10 pm, it was too dark out. He was outside sitting calmly with my SO while SO had a cigarette. Then he came in and sat on the couch with me, so I don't think it was excitement from playing. And no, SO has never ever scolded him for going inside - I nixed the idea of doing that even before Ben came home that first day.

Thinking about it now, though, both times occured at a point when Ben may have thought something fun/interesting was going to happen. First night we both got up at once to walk into the dining room, second night SO ran upstairs to grab something and then quickly came down again. Maybe it was just excitement.

I'll keep a close eye on him, anyway. I really appreciate the advice.

Kate

jones

Posted : 8/21/2006 8:56:03 AM

I wouldn't worry or even think much of these incidents. In my experience housetraining Russell there were those out-of-the-blue accidents that really didn't mean or foreshadow anything at all. Plus, Ben is still really young. Russell even once completely emptied his bladder in the house at a year old after being housetrained for a few months, for no discernable reason... and hasn't done it since. Sometimes there are blips on the radar like that.