Dog Community

weird problem

Posted : 7/7/2006 1:13:08 AM

About a week ago, we came home from a short drive with both dogs and Bella's side of the car was damp with urine. This past Sunday, we came home from a slightly longer drive and Bella's side of the car was *soaked* with urine. She was just fine sitting in it, and she had never made a peep that she needed to get out. (Roscoe usually whines at us if he needs to go while we are driving, so I guess we were expecting that.)

Tonight we went out and left both Roscoe and Bella in their crates from 5:30 - 10:20. We came home to an almost completely soaked crate! Her bed, which is about 3-4" thick cedar-filled, was half soaked. The towels on top of her bed were soaked through, and the pan beneath the bed was wet enough to need several paper towels to dry it.

But it doesn't smell really bad. I can barely smell anything at all, let alone a uriney smell. I've never really dealt with dog urine, just cat. And cat urine is unmistakable. Is dog urine less noxious?

According to her rescue group, Bella has been crated that long, and we've crated Roscoe for up to 5 hours before. And I took her out for a walk and 90 minutes at the dog park, during which time I *made sure* she pee'd significant amounts. Then I let her out again just before we left and she marked a little bit. She had oatmeal and egg for dinner and a marrow bone when we left.

Any ideas? Could she really have peed enough to soak that much? Drooled while chewing her bone that much? Maybe spilled her oatmeal and just eaten all the solid bits but the liquie was left behind? I know - wishful thinking. But why would she pee in her crate at this age? I could understand a little housebreaking regression and going in the living room, but in the crate? (and on her seat in the car?)

Xeph

Posted : 7/7/2006 1:39:26 AM

How old is Bella? If she's an older dog, it could be the road to incontinence, and she doesn't KNOW she's going. My old man, Ranger, is going on 9, and he's starting to have some bladder issues.

At a Pet Expo my club was having, I knew it was about time to take Ranger dog out, because he has to go a lot more often now, but it was so crowded, I just couldn't get him out to the grass. He couldn't hold it anymore, and he just started going, couldn't stop himself. I don't care what anybody says, dogs can feel shame, and his eyes were just so sad that he couldn't contain himself anymore.

His bladder has pretty much reverted to that of a 6 month old puppy. We're going out every couple of hours.

If your girlie isn't a senior citizen, she very well could have a UTI, but if you're not seeing bits of blood in her urine (Sometimes a dog with a UTI will have orange pee), or smelling something fishy (literally), it may not be.

Dog urine, while stinky, is NOTHING compared to cat, which may be why it doesn't bother your sense of smell. Next time she goes out to potty, observe her, see how many times she goes. Note the color. If she's going potty in her crate and on her bed, again, most likely a UTI.

I suggest getting her into the vet "Just in case." Also, is Roscoe male? Sometimes males (even neutered ones) will take interest in a bitch with vaginosis or a UTI, because it smells similar to a bitch in heat.

jones

Posted : 7/7/2006 8:41:13 AM

I agree with the vet suggestion... have you noticed her drinking unusual amounts of water? It may be that's she's drinking so much her urine is super diluted, to make it less painful.... Normally dog urine smells not unlike human urine I would say.

Another possibility, and this actually seems more likely to me given the amount of "soaking" you're describing, could be anxiety. Sometimes owners of dogs with SA come home to find their dogs soaking wet from drool and sweaty paw pads. She may get carsick and therefore stressed out on car rides....

mudpuppy

Posted : 7/7/2006 8:53:50 AM

it's not uncommon for spayed female dogs to "leak" urine (there's a simple, safe, cheap drug to cure that problem), but the huge volumes you describe sound a bit odd.

brookcove

Posted : 7/7/2006 9:14:48 AM

My spayed female started to "leak" last year. I'd heard of it before but I was totally unprepared for the great big puddles. It would happen when she was relaxing and then got up, particularly suddenly.

We put her on a drug and it stopped. She checked out physically in every way.

Some may scoff at this, but during that time we had switched temporarily to a very cheap feed store product to save on food costs. We ourselves were eating rice, mac n cheese and ramen, meat from our farm, and some meat that had been given to us. All the dogs looked and acted basically crappy during that time but Ben's crash and this problem with Maggie both started a few weeks after making the change.

Things improved financially a couple months later, Maggie went back on an all-raw diet, and the leaking went away. She hasn't been on the drug, and hasn't had an accident, since we took her off the cheap food.

One of my feelings is that cheap food isn't really cheap, and this incident just strengthened my belief. This is totally off topic, however, since I don't believe that holistic feeding will actually keep a really incontinent dog from having problems. but maybe it could help by improving overall health, as I believe occured in Maggie's case

Norie Kany

Posted : 7/7/2006 10:12:56 AM

I, for one, absolutely believe crappy food makes a difference. Just like it does it people. My dog is extremely sensative to foods and only Canidae has squelched her frustrating itching problem. I tried her on Nutro and Science Diet. She scratched and chewed like mad with those even though they are suppose to be considered good brands. The grocery store brands to me are completely crap but that is just one person's opinion.

cakana

Posted : 7/7/2006 10:21:11 AM

Based on my limited experience, I don't think this is spay incontinence because of the amount of wetness. I could be totally wrong, but my previous dog had it pretty bad (frequency wise) but the amount was usually the equilavent of a few spoonfuls to 1/4 cup. It too was odorless though, which I always found odd. At the time, they gave us DES and it took care of the problem. This sounds like incontinence but perhaps of a different kind. I think I'd get a checkup with the vet to rule out any UTIs or other medical problems.

jensw

Posted : 7/7/2006 10:40:30 AM

Thanks, guys. We did have a urinalysis done about 5 days after she came home with us, so that's about 2 weeks ago. And she was fine then. Do you think something could have come on suddenly since then?

I do feed her raw, and she was eating Purina One at the rescue group. I don't feed organic, though. It's just

roducts from a co-op where I can buy hundreds of pounds at a time. Think that has something to do with it?

Spay incontinence often affects dogs who were spayed too early, right? Then that makes sense, since she went home from the pound as a little puppy. She was probably spayed at a young age. I guess we'll be heading back to the vet again just to see. [&:]

cakana

Posted : 7/7/2006 10:52:21 AM

I think you're feeding her awesomely and the fact that it isn't organic shouldn't be causing this at all (at least not in my mind). The spay incontinence is more common when they're spayed young, but it can happen. My samoyed that had it was spayed at about 6 months. The vets don't seem to use the DES as much as they used to, but they can get it from compounding pharmacies still. I think the other option is PPAs, but they have to be given more often. We only had to give the DES once a week, so that was nice. I think there's controversy and/or problems with both, so if it turns out to be spay incontinence, you might want to do a little research.

loveukaykay

Posted : 7/7/2006 12:01:51 PM

Just a thought on the flip side.... when we first got Kayla and left her in the cage we would come home to a SOAKING wet cage. Didnt smell or look like pee. Dogs pee is not as bad as cats but it still smells like pee and has a yellowish tint to it. Get a clean white paper towel or wash cloth and sop some up and see if its even a bit yellow. With Kayla we figured out that it was not pee but slobber. I never knew and will never know how she got that slobbery but there were puddles in the cage, everything in it was soaked... and SHE was soaked under her neck and all down her front legs.

For her it may have been the stress if SA.... but for Bella it may be the stress of a car ride? Or SA?

Then again it may just be pee, but I would think you could smell it.

pofi_pasquale

Posted : 7/9/2006 1:12:19 PM

Jen - we were having some issues with Mia in this vein as well and the urinalysis showed her urine to not be very concentrated. She also had a vaginal infection which was causing her to drink a lot of water - ran right through her. Every time we did a course of antibiotics, it would be better, but after quitting, we'd be back. And it definitely is a much less pungent odor, sometimes almost non at all compared to cat urine.

Then we started noticing inflamation at her spay scar (she was spayed Feb 24 and was just 5 months, if that). It seems like she is reacting to suture material and that was the cause of the vaginal or uterine (what's left) infection as well. She is now nearly mid way through a 6 week course - we are all desperately trying to avoid another surgery.

So you might have her vulva swabbed to see if there is any irritation from infection there.

And, if it is spay incontinence, we had great success with an older female becoming "leaky" with DES.

So sorry Bella is having this issue...

agilebasenji

Posted : 7/9/2006 1:48:14 PM

I know nothing about this problem, but I did find this while looking for something else:

[linkS=0~12~0~~0~0&SC=None&Action=2&AnswerID=a17b135c-3d9b-4ba5-b713-4ac514f3d32a]http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/search.aspx?SH=DADBDCDBDADADDDGDFDHDEGBGCDADCGFCNGDGCGEDDCNDEDGGCDICNGCGFDEDDCNGGDEGEGBGGGCDDDGDDGEGDDFDADADADBDCDADADBDGFFHCGJGOGBHCHJCNFAHCGPGCGMGFGNHDDADADADEDADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBDADADADADADADADADADADADADBDADADADBDGFFHCGJGOGBHCHJCNFAHCGPGCGMGFGNHDDADADADBDB&LAP=0&

S=0~12~0~~0~0&SC=None&Action=2&AnswerID=a17b135c-3d9b-4ba5-b713-4ac514f3d32a[/link]>http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/search.aspx?SH=DADBDCDBDADADDDGDFDHDEGBGCDADCGFCNGDGCGEDDCNDEDGGCDICNGCGFDEDDCNGGDEGEGBGGGCDDDGDDGEGDDFDADADADBDCDADADBDGFFHCGJGOGBHCHJCNFAHCGPGCGMGFGNHDDADADADEDADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBDADADADADADADADADADADADADBDADADADBDGFFHCGJGOGBHCHJCNFAHCGPGCGMGFGNHDDADADADBDB&LAP=0&

S=0~12~0~~0~0&SC=None&Action=2&AnswerID=a17b135c-3d9b-4ba5-b713-4ac514f3d32a]http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/search.aspx?SH=DADBDCDBDADADDDGDFDHDEGBGCDADCGFCNGDGCGEDDCNDEDGGCDICNGCGFDEDDCNGGDEGEGBGGGCDDDGDDGEGDDFDADADADBDCDADADBDGFFHCGJGOGBHCHJCNFAHCGPGCGMGFGNHDDADADADEDADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBDADADADADADADADADADADADADBDADADADBDGFFHCGJGOGBHCHJCNFAHCGPGCGMGFGNHDDADADADBDB&LAP=0&

S=0~12~0~~0~0&SC=None&Action=2&AnswerID=a17b135c-3d9b-4ba5-b713-4ac514f3d32a[/link]

(sorry that link is so long, hope it works)

jensw

Posted : 7/12/2006 11:50:56 AM

Thanks, everyone! Sorry I didn't respond in so long. For some reason, forum.dog.com has been de-bolding ALL messages every time I log in. So even if I don't check a certain forum on a particular visit, everything is debolded when I return and I don't see my thread again. [:@]

Anyway, we're definitely getting her checked again, but I am starting to be torn between spay incontinence and simple improper/inappropriate housebreaking.We remembered a 4th accident that she had had when we first got her, and she's had another one since the OP.

We've been observing very closely, and she seems to be *afraid* to pee in front of us and these two accidents that I've mentioned both involved her spending several hours with DH in the house and then he left her for a minute to get a drink or something and came back to her having peed all over the dog bed or carpet.

Couple that with being an outdoor dog at her two homes, living in a kennel at the pound for a couple months as a puppy and then again as an adult dog, and a doggie door at the rescue ... I think she was both never completely trained AND severely punished for going in the house that makes her afraid of going in front of people. It would account for her not going on leash and always taking off for the side yard to "do her business" when I let her out. So we've been trying to praise to the high heavens whenever she does pee where we can see her (while outside).