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Sibling rivalry or serious problem on the rise?

Posted : 6/29/2006 11:30:16 AM

I have 2 Bull Terriers ages 18 months (Mirra) and 9 months (Sydnee). Sydnee had this habit of following Mirra around, cutting in front of her or bumping her. She used to walk by Mirra and snap at her. One day Mirra got fed up and grabbed onto her. It took a few seconds to get her off Sydnee, but we got them separated and no serious injuries. Then suddenly Mirra would attack her unprovoked. We finally got them under control and the fighting slowed down for a bit. We would reprimand Sydnee for cutting in front of Mirra, purposefully bumping into her or doing her walk by snapping. We watched their body language closely and stepped in if we noticed body language that might lead to a fight. There was still the occassional heated brawl, but we were usually able to stop it before it started.

Then Sydnee decides she wants to start protecting her food from Mirra and more brawls broke out. We gave them separate bowls and watched them closely during meal time. We used to free feed, but not anymore. Problem solved. Right? Wrong!

Last night there was an unprovoked, sudden fight. I was at work when it happened, so I can only relay the info my boyfriend told me. Apparently Mirra just walked over the Sydnee and grabbed onto her. It took quite an effort on my boyfriend's part to get them separated and he also got bit in the process (which is the second time he's been bitten).

I've been told by some people that now that Sydnee is sexually mature she is challenging Mirra for dominance. I'm not sure if I think that is correct because everytime they play wrestle Sydnee always rolls on her back and assumes the submissive position. I was also told to "promote" the more dominant dog, which is currently Mirra, and "demote" the more submissive dog. Me, being the "pack leader", must show them the pecking order and keep it that way. So, I read more about it and tried it. Apparently I'm not doing something correct because the fights are still occurring. Mind you, it is happening less frequently now. It used to be 2-3 fights per week. Before last night we had went almost 3 weeks with no brawling.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I need help! There is no way I'm rehoming either of them. They are my dogs, my kids, my responsibility and I want to get this problem solved. I am going to call the obedience trainer that I've gone to in the past, but I also would like more suggestions and opinions.

Both are intact females. I don't think spaying is going to solve the problem at all, and even if it did, I won't have them spayed just yet. I had a deaf female Bull Terrier who died 10 minutes after her spaying procedure was complete. I was so bonded with that dog, she was my baby, and I'm forever traumatized and scared to death to have another animal spayed. I know I'll eventually get over it, but I'm not ready to do that just yet.

cakana

Posted : 6/29/2006 12:33:35 PM

I have two females who've had aggression problems very similar to what you describe. Here are my thoughts - I don't think that it's always real clear who is or isn't the submissive or dominant one, so trying to reinforce either, may backfire. I decided they were both going to be treated the same (as much as possible) and I would be the only one with a higher rank. I feed my dogs totally separate (they can't even see each other). I never give them treats or toys together. My one lab does that herding type of behavior you describe (and other things like that) and I try to calmly redirect her when it seems to be a problem. I've learned that I need to be calm with them though because sometimes speaking too loud or emotionally, would set off a fight. After meeting with a behaviorist, we kept them separated for long periods of time and only let them be together if we could vigilantly monitor them. She said that the more they fight - the more they will fight and each fight we be increasingly worse. I'm happy to say that the last fight was in Sept. The link to an article is pretty informative. I understand about not wanting to rehome, but you must understand that keeping both dogs can be quite challenging, especially if you don't have the ability to keep them separated for long periods of time.

[linkhttp://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=157&A=1009&S=0&EVetID=220148]http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=157&A=1009&S=0&EVetID=220148[/link]

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Posted : 6/29/2006 3:45:57 PM

Having two intact females especially of a terrier/bully is not the smartest idea. I understand your fear of having them spayed but it will help defintly, believe me. It wont fix the problem but if you plan on keeping them forever you have to overcome that fear, push the past aside and think of whats best for your two girls you have now. When one comes in heat it will make them CRAZY!!!! I dodnt want to take my baby girl in to be spayed, believe me. She is a beautiful red nose, passed her ehalth test, registered with the UKC, she comes froma great line of dogs but I had to think of what was best for her. I even cried when I dropped her off. Just keep telling yourself that the incident with your other fur baby was not typical, millions of dogs are spayed a month, and you are doing whats best.
You are doing right by seperating their bowls but you also need to establish that YOU are the alpha, neither of them are. It also sounds like you try to dole out the attention equally so as not to make either jealous.....keep that up. Obediance is also a key factor in this situation, beef up their training.
Others will be along shortly with some great advice too!

Rhonda

Posted : 6/29/2006 10:04:43 PM

My boyfriend and I work different shifts, so they're crated/separated at bedtime. They are never left loose in the house alone. We watch them like hawks! Any body language that looks like there might be a brawl about to start and we intervene. We have a fenced in back yard and they rough house and chase each other playfully outside (fully supervised of course) and have never had a problem with that. I think it's mainly food that got the whole thing started. Sydnee is a little piggie. She will literally eat all 3 bowls of food (I also have a red Doberman) if we let her. When we did free feeding she would lay down next to the bowl "protecting" the food.

As far as the spaying goes, I've talked to 2 different vets and they both said that spaying won't neccessarily solve the problem. I am slowly trying to work up the courage to have it done. I do know that spayed dogs are healthier, not to mention cleaner because females come into heat twice a year....but.....if I have another dog die from the spay surgery......well, I will probably end up in a mental institution. I don't have kids, my dogs are my kids. I don't let them walk all over me, yet they do lead a privileged life. My deaf dog, Riley, died 15 months ago and I'm still not over it. I had an extremely close bond with her. I am doing better.....I'm down to 2-3 crying spells

er month now! [

] It's horrible. You take your pet in to get spayed, thinking you're doing what's best for them and then you get a phone call from the vet that they went into cardiac arrest and died. That's the last thing you'd expect, or want to hear! So, yes, I am traumatized and trying to exorcise those demons. I will get there, it just won't be tomorrow.

We are going to start taking them for walks individually and giving them their own special time and see if that helps.

I tried to call the obedience trainer that I've went to in the past....of course she's on vacation right now.

Thanks for the suggestions and a little reassurance. I just want to end this before the fights become more violent. So far we've been lucky and there have been no big lacerations or stitches needed. Usually there's no blood shed, or Sydnee might have a tiny drop of blood on her somewhere.