Aggression on the rise?

I think the increased "aggression" is sometimes just perceived aggression from people who don't understand normal dog behavior. And, I also think that things get let go until a serious problem happens. I researched, I read, and then did some more reading. I was trying to prevent a bite, a bite which would have most definately happened.

Well said willow.  Perceived aggression.  Pharaoh Hounds *smile.*  This *smile* entails showing off their beautiful and quite large set of canines, as well as the rest of their teeth.  It looks very scary.  And if you didn't know him you'd be a bit intimidated.  Sometimes Xerxes catches me off guard and I'm suddenly intimidated by those canines, especially when he's doing the PH greeting...which involves a jumping and a smiling (usually directed towards your face.)

   those cute little behaviors are not so cute once the  dog gets older and larger, then suddenly they have an out of control adolcent pup who rules the rooste and THEY don't like the behavior that just a few months ago was "cute".

Thanks Glenda, I tell people that all the time and they still allow certain behaviors.  This, IMO, is along the same lines as playing rough with your puppy.  Teach them it's ok to use teeth on skin and it's a lesson they'll never unlearn completely.

I don't think that aggression is really on the rise.  I think that aggression rates are probably the same, it's just that the media is using these incidents to hype the BSL and to promote their own ratings.   Also, like it was said in another posting:  reported dog bites are increasing.  Now it seems to always be the dog's fault, where as before it was one's responsibility to not provoke the dog.  ie "Your dog growled at me"  "Well don't mess around with him while he's eating."

I think that people are trying too much to make dogs into little humans, and dogs don't need nor do they want that responsibility.  How many times have you heard an owner say "he doesn't think he's a dog at all.?"  Dogs should know that they're dogs and should never be given unreasonable expectations to live up to.

I'm not a trainer, nor a behaviorist either.  And I'm not an old broad with a ton of experience either.  I'm just a guy that's had a few dogs and studies the way that dogs interact with each other and loves to learn.

When I was 7 I got out of a truck that I was told to stay in, when into someone's fenced yard (past the "Beware of Dog" signs), and walked up to and hugged the family's GSD, despite be told NEVER to do that to a strange dog.

The dog bit, I was rushed to the ER, my mother was so traumatized over seeing my face that she passed out.  I got 21 stitches and my mother is still terrified of dogs.  However, if you ask her, she will tell you the bite was my own fault (and I agree).  She never sued, the dog was not put down, and the papers never printed an artical with the headline "Child Attacked By Dog."  It was chalked up as a hard lesson learned, I have a few scars, and she still says "You don't put your face by Sally's face, do you?"

If that had happened now with most parents, all hell would break loose, regardless of the circumstances.

We expect a lot of dogs.  And we expect it now.  We want the pup, but we don't want to train it.  We want a calm dog, but we aren't willing to exercise it.

Parents let their kids walk up to strange dogs without a second thought.  This happened to me a few months after I got Sally.  We were in Pet Smart and this 4 yr old girl, whose mother was not closely watching, walked right up to Sally (she was almost eye level with her) and hugged her around the neck before I could stop her.  My heart stopped---and Sally licked her.  I showed the little girl my scars and told her why she should never do that again, but God knows if it made a difference.  Since them I practice "defensive shopping" when with Sally.

I did not perceive any CM bashing just clarification on questions/replies but like anything else people 'see' based on their own perceptions/experiences.  How's that for double-speak LOL.
 
I think the aggression levels have risen some. Most of it based on our expectations of dogs and the current realities they now live.  20 years ago most dogs were free to roam neighborhoods and had excellent socialization skills.  Everyone knew everyone elses dog.   This was not a conscious choice to socialize but a result of the environment they grew up in.  Those that did not get along in the neighborhood were tied up in the backyard or were sent "to the farm" to live (PTS). 
 
Dogs received adequate excercise and mental stimulation through the rambling around they did either with or without the kids.  Dog bites were not publicized or reported to the extent they are now.
 
Now people expect the dog they had when they grew up but typically interact very little with him/her.  Both parents work and most kids are not reliable/responsible enough to exercise the family pet.  The result is dogs who are very isolated and frustrated.  Just like it "takes a village to raise a child" is true for puppies also.
 
I am sure there are alot more issues at play in the rise of aggression I have seen but IMHO this is one of the main ones.  BTW I am not advocating free reign for dogs - just pointing out past vs present. 

"after i established dominance by using rare physical correction and other methods and the dog then became submissive to me and learned it was ok to trust me."
 
 
What? Is this seriously what your thought of  a "trusting" relationship? 
 
While you may have oodles and eons of experience at whatever,
whenever, it makes no difference to me. 
 
Even ure compulsion obedience training  would seem to make more sense? Please explain this odd theory?
    
 

Sorry, bad typist & not a veteran user of the forum features yet.
 
That was meant as quote repeat of  another members entry! 
 

Pharaoh Hounds *smile.* This *smile* entails showing off their beautiful and quite large set of canines, as well as the rest of their teeth. It looks very scary.

Isn't that fantastic? I've been told, by a Tervuren owner, that this is a typical Terv trait, as well. The dog *smiled* the whole time we was being groomed, and smiled bigger when you patted his head, or talked to him. It was adorable, but slightly unnerving.

I am opening The Pet Athletic Club (The PAC) in an effort to get back to what dogs were originally bred to do.

 
As someone who owns a working style Aussie, I think this is a great idea.  I am well aware that my dog needs an outlet for her energy and willingness to work, and that failure to provide it puts her at risk for behavior problems.  Most of the adolescent dogs I see in class don't even get enough exercise, never mind do any activities that satisfy their urge to do the work for which they were originally bred.
Oh, and by the way, Aussies smile, too.  (And look darn scary to the uninitiated when they do.)

ORIGINAL: mrgmfoster

Mic - obviously you don't care for CM - but the term "red zone" does give one a picture, if not a definition, of aggression.

What picture does it give?  It is kind of a made up term to categorize a group of dogs that are hard to control.  When trying to understand/picture aggression the most important part of this is understanding the type of aggression.

Red Zone has been used to define dominance aggression, fear aggression, territorial aggression, possessive aggression, punishment aggression, pain based aggression, predatory aggression, maternal aggression, deferred (redirected) aggression, and so on.  Above it was used to describe a dog that is nervous or anxious. 

The term Red Zone is useless in terms of training or behavior modification.  To me, it's a lot like saying "that dog is really mean!". 

It is hard to define because it is so subjective.  A case may appear "red zone" to an owner and to me it's just a little resource guarding. 

It is just a generic word, and in my mind, no way for a trainer to describe a dogs behavior.

As far as CM goes...He is a traditional crank and yank trainer.  I don't dislike the guy, but I don't put a lot of stock in his methods.  I have seen them done for years...it's just nothing new.

I am not opposed to using corrections.  I think in aggression cases they are a temporary fix.  The dog submits in fear, and of course doesn't act out, but when a single aspect of the situation changes you are back to square one. 

I think the rise in aggression can be attributed to the general anthropomorphism of dogs.  As a society I feel we have crossed a line that is now detrimental to our dogs mental health.  I am opening The Pet Athletic Club (The PAC) in an effort to get back to what dogs were originally bred to do. In my opinion, almost all aggression can be dealt with by utilizing a breed in the way it was intended.  Look for The PAC in a city near you soon!

just because i used a so called "cesarism" doesnt mean jack... when i said red zone i mean her response to EVERYTHING was aggression even when people simply tried to pet her in a friendly manner she was snapping at people she knew very well, when my father put food in the bowl she'd growl the second he began to take his hand away, if you moved to quick, breathed the wrong way, shed look at you as if you were a meal.

and ill tell you what, i have never had a dog fear me or become aggressive because of the way i correct them so obviously i'm doing something right whether you understand the way i put things or not, dont read so far into things.

and for the way CM's "pack" is towards him he certainly doesnt need to be bashed on. im sure he'd find your methods equally as odd, people deal with things differently but dogs all perceive things basically the same way.

just because i used a so called "cesarism" doesnt mean jack...

 
And with the use of the word "jack" you've just totally discredited yourself for me. 

and ill tell you what, i have never had a dog fear me or become aggressive because of the way i correct them so obviously i'm doing something right whether you understand the way i put things or not, dont read so far into things.

 
I am sure you won't like to hear this, but my experience tells me that many owners, possibly yourself included, do *not* read subtle signs of canine stress or anxiety very well, and you may be mistaken about any damage you may have caused.  But, it has also been my experience that being defensive about this subject, in particular, blocks your ability to learn new ways of doing things that may result in happier, and better behaved, dogs.  I like to cite the example of Gail Fisher, a very well known trainer in New England.  She was a traditional trainer, and well respected for her abilities.  Yet, when she saw what clicker training could do, she not only abandoned her former methods, she risked her business to do it.  Now, that's courage and fearlessness! 
I also often think about one of my students.  He has a very timid Welsh Springer Spaniel who is not very interested in physical play.  One day, I met them at a local dog day care - he was dropping her off, and telling me how much she looooooves coming there.  As he left, I watched through the viewing window as she was plunked (did not go willingly) into a play yard full of exuberant Labs, a Boxer or two, and other dogs.  She cowered, urinated, and looked as if she would prefer to be anyplace else on Earth.  The sad part is that it wasn't just an initial submissive greeting.  She hunkered down in that yard for a full ten minutes and did not join the group, or even attempt to slink away.  Shaking and terrified, her owner abandoned her to a situation she was not yet prepared to handle, and though she was not injured physically, I'm sure that she would have loved to find a way to tell him how overwhelmed she was.  This has now been going on for months, and no one at the day care, supposedly dog professionals, even reads this dog's behavior properly.  The owner thinks that her groveling is happiness, but ignores the tucked tail, the sweaty pads, and the stress wrinkles.
 
And, unless you are referring to jack...cheese, I'm with Lori.  Vulgarity is how we defend ourselves when our arguments don't hold up.

people deal with things differently but dogs all perceive things basically the same way.

 
If this were true-then people wouldn't seek experienced rofessionals or pay them. They
would just purchase the standard manual, and
apply it .
 
Well folks... I rest my case.

"Jack" is vulgarity? 
 
I think the real questions is "why does CM come up in just about every training topic?"  Dog.com should be charging him for advertising.[8|]

sry for the "vulgarity" but im so sick of this CM junk that im gettting really irritated with certain people.  just because you see him say things on tv doesnt mean HE came up with them or that other people are attempting to be like him by using same or similar terms. you obviously dont like CM, we get it, so quit bashing on the guy and his "cesarisms"

Look, I have been training for a long time.  I have a graduate degree in applied animal behavior, and I deal with loads of trainers everyday.  I can tell when a trainer has watched a little to much TV and tries to pass themselves off as an experienced professional. 
 
Turn off the TV, and go get some experience.  You will be amazed at what is true and not.

I think aggression IS on the increase. But mostly due to a lack of socialization early in life. We used to get a puppy out of a home-raised litter, bring it home, and basically let it run wild with the neighborhood pack of kids and dogs. By the time pup grew up he knew how to behave around dogs and humans. Not that I'm advocating letting dogs run loose. But think about most people's dogs nowadays: they grow up virtually isolated. Meet very few other dogs, few kids, few strangers. Then they are 6 months old and it's too late.
 
Another problem: many dog owners clearly have no understanding of normal dog behavior, and coddle their dogs. I've seen owners freaking out about perfectly normal, friendly dog play, and getting terribly upset about a normal dog telling another dog to stop being so rude (harmless growl and airsnap). What do think happens to the behavior of puppies whose owners constantly intervene in a panic during such situations?
For example, a man I occasionally meet at the dog park. He has a typical wild adolescent pup. The dog would every now and again play too rough and get a "you're rude" growl and snap. It was obvious to me that the pup was being well-schooled in manners by the other dogs and needed to come to the dog park often during this period of his life. However, the man was quite upset every time this happened and would yell at the growling dog, and drag his dog away. He said he was coming less and less often to the park because of how "mean" the other dogs were to his dog. This dog is clearly going to turn into a rude adult that provokes other dogs into aggressive behavior.