Aggression on the rise?

i have to say i do agree with you, people think that physical corrections make a dog more aggressive also, which is completely untrue especially with the larger and working breeds. to show dominance is to correct even if its not physical. when you let the dog lead you is when you run into SERIOUS issues

I am not a trainer or a behavoralist.  I do however own SIX german shepherds, three of them for sure from working lines.  I use NO physical corrections and I've got danged well behaved, non-agressive dogs.  One need not show dominance to establish leadership.

One need not show dominance to establish leadership.

 
Agreed! and,
 
One need not show aggression to establish dominance.

I am a trainer, and I agree with Glenda and Mic that one does not need to "dominate" in the sense of making physical corrections.  I have five dogs, one of which is a young Aussie from strictly working lines.  I think the increase in aggression may be because more bites get reported.  When I was young, if a child got bitten, the mom told them to leave the dog alone while it was eating next time.  Now, parents want to call two-month-old pups aggressive, and think that they should have soft mouths from birth.
Some of it has to do with:
a. Bad breeding practices - internet, take-the-visa-card and I'll send you a doodle, etc.
b. Shelters and rescues who fail to properly evaluate dogs and euthanize when necessary - there is a mentality that says we must save them all (IMO not good to do when good dogs are still dying for lack of room)
c. People are busier and have less time to spend with their dogs - no moms at home any more to work with the dog during quiet time with no little hellions about
d. A child-centered mindset that demonizes normal puppies and dogs who are simply untrained and sends them off to the shelter for "aggression" that was simply pup mouthiness
e. Jerks who think it's macho to have an aggressive dog and encourage bad behavior
f. Picking the wrong dog for the household - Aussies and Border Collies are pretty, so they look great in the pet store window, but I don't know many families thatcan provide appropriate homes for them...
Positive reinforcement training works if you understand its principles and apply them correctly.  And, it is rare that a +R trained dog is aggressive unless the principles are applied incorrectly.  What I have found is that people don't want reliable results - they want reliable results *now*, so they rely on punishment.  It sure does work, but I prefer a different relationship with my dogs - and, yes, I am their (benevolent) leader. 

physical corrections are not always necessary, but in some cases they are... i have a 4 year old pit who was babied too much and shown too much affection when she was anxious or nervous. after i established dominance by using rare physical correction and other methods and the dog then became submissive to me and learned it was ok to trust me. once a red zone case i have relieved her of her "alpha duties" she is much happier and a lot less anxious and nervous

Well, I just wanted to add that Willow was extremely difficult when she first came to me.  She was unsocialized, dominant, pushy and very unpredictable.  And, she was nervous and fearful as she had never lived in a house before.
 
I came here searching desparately for help because twice I was going to give her up and more often than not I was afraid of her. 
 
I used the NILIF program and never once alpha rolled her, choked her or anything else.  I've never put my hands on her in anything but friendship and I strongly believe that that combined with the training and NILIF has brought her to where she is today. 
 
I think the increased "aggression" is sometimes just perceived aggression from people who don't understand normal dog behavior.  And, I also think that things get let go until a serious problem happens. I researched, I read, and then did some more reading.  I was trying to prevent a bite, a bite which would have most definately happened.
 
And, pretty often on here I read things like my dog bit me and then basically they do the same thing that got them bit in the first place again and are amazed they got bit twice!  I think the pushing a dog around and dominating them mentality is going to backfire eventually.  I am firm she doesn't get away with not listening or poor behavior but I'm also very loving and patient and forgiving.  She knows she can trust me.  And, I see that trust carry over into her tolerating grooming, vet visits, people touching her, etc. 

after i established dominance by using rare physical correction and other methods and the dog then became submissive to me

 
An anxious dog will often become "submissive" to someone who uses physical methods, but pressed too far one of two things often happens.  Either the dog completely shuts down (afraid to try new things), or they retaliate out of abject fear.  Unfortunately, not many pet owners really know which kind of dog they have until it's too late.  Force is usually just a substitute for a well thought out, and properly applied, training program.  The numbers of dogs who require physical force are, IMO, exceedingly rare, and should not even be owned by the average pet person. 
The dog that was previously coddled can be made to understand that the human is in charge by using a program similar to what Lori has used with Willow.  A dog that was fearful and coddled for it, and then gets physically corrected, may not be exhibiting passive submission, but, rather, exaggerated fear.  Trouble is, owners don't know the difference and make the mistake of thinking they have made the dog understand that they are the leader.  Dogs don't fear pack leaders - they just understand that the leader is in charge.  Humans have a tough time making the distinction.

Mic and Anne thank you both for posting. 
 
I have to say that even now I'm not sure that I am totally up to speed on +R theory.  But it works, as I muddle through.  Neither Thor or Sheba went to training as pups because the ONLY trainer where we lived was into alpha rolling and choke chains.  Even "not knowing" something in me rebelled at that.  But then, years ago when "everyone" used the rolled up newspaper and rubbing a pups nose in a mistake, I couldn't bring myself to do that either.  Among other things, I couldn't see accepting puppy kisses from a little squirmer whose nose was covered in poop....and I've always loved puppy kisses.
 
Perhaps because I grew up in an age where what was considered discipline would today be considered abuse, I never wanted to use physical corrections on my children....and they had to be really AWFUL to earn a swift swat to the rear. And because I stayed on top of their behavior, that rarely happened. I raised children successfully using the kinder, gentler methods and lots of praise, while working full time AND part of that time as a single mom, and I've raised many, many dogs the same way.  Large, smaller, working lines, etc.  The one animal I have who is reactive....not agressive mind you....is because I failed to protect her during a fear stage.  And after working with a behavoralist I better understand +R, but I also know for certain that physical corrections with this girl would make her MORE reactive and quite possibly, agressive, which is what I was wanting to avoid in the first place.
 
With apologies to the OP since I'm NOT a trainer.......in my laymans opinion the increased agression is in large part because folks do not TRAIN their pups as pups....those cute little behaviors are not so cute once the  dog gets older and larger, then suddenly they have an out of control adolcent pup who rules the rooste and THEY don't like the behavior that just a few months ago was "cute".  Many of the dogs who come into the shelter I'm involved with are great animals, but totally untrained......and then someone tries to get all alpha on them and makes matters worse.  The trainer at our shelter is just a little spit of a gal.....but by golly she trains the biggest and supposedly meanest dogs in very little time.....all with +R.  And I guess very little time is a relative term, but within 6 months she had a growly, snarly gsd/dobbie mix doing therapy visits.  To me that's pretty darned quick.
 
So maybe the agression we are seeing in dogs, just like the rudeness and agression we are seeing in children is primarily related to how they are being raised.  Without structure and perameters.  Just a laymans opinion.

once a red zone case

 
This is a "Cesarisim", and not a good definition of a particular level of aggression because it doesn't distinguish the type of aggression you are dealing with.

Glenda - couldn't agree with you more - re puppies not being handled properly and then turning into very naughty, ill mannered (my words) dogs.  I recently worked with a woman who brought in a poorly socialized Bolognese puppy - I told her that the pup would eventually become a biter if she didn't work with it as I indicated.  She did not - and now no one can touch the dog but her - which is very unfortunate for all concerned.
 
Mic - obviously you don't care for CM - but the term "red zone" does give one a picture, if not a defnition, of aggression.
 
Although I do believe that some dogs need "proper" corrections - alpha rolls are stupid and dangerous and hitting a dog is never the answer.  Some dogs require only a soft "no", some dogs require a lead correction - but if you start by bringing up a pup correction, any type of correction is seldom necessary.
 
Appreciate all the input - keep it coming!
 
Dianeg

Ill mannered is an excellent description!
 
Glad you didn't mind my non-expert intrusion into your thread.

Mic - obviously you don't care for CM - but the term "red zone" does give one a picture, if not a definition, of aggression.

 
What picture does it give?  It is kind of a made up term to categorize a group of dogs that are hard to control.  When trying to understand/picture aggression the most important part of this is understanding the type of aggression.
 
Red Zone has been used to define dominance aggression, fear aggression, territorial aggression, possessive aggression, punishment aggression, pain based aggression, predatory aggression, maternal aggression, deferred (redirected) aggression, and so on.  Above it was used to describe a dog that is nervous or anxious. 
 
The term Red Zone is useless in terms of training or behavior modification.  To me, it's a lot like saying "that dog is really mean!". 
 
It is hard to define because it is so subjective.  A case may appear "red zone" to an owner and to me it's just a little resource guarding. 
 
It is just a generic word, and in my mind, no way for a trainer to describe a dogs behavior.
 
As far as CM goes...He is a traditional crank and yank trainer.  I don't dislike the guy, but I don't put a lot of stock in his methods.  I have seen them done for years...it's just nothing new.
 
I am not opposed to using corrections.  I think in aggression cases they are a temporary fix.  The dog submits in fear, and of course doesn't act out, but when a single aspect of the situation changes you are back to square one. 
 
I think the rise in aggression can be attributed to the general anthropomorphism of dogs.  As a society I feel we have crossed a line that is now detrimental to our dogs mental health.  I am opening The Pet Athletic Club (The PAC) in an effort to get back to what dogs were originally bred to do. In my opinion, almost all aggression can be dealt with by utilizing a breed in the way it was intended.  Look for The PAC in a city near you soon!

I am not sure dogs are any more aggressive today than they were when I was a kid, but, as I was told in a sales seminar years ago, there is no such thing as reality, there is only perception.  People's idea of what consititutes proper behavior, whether in children or in dogs, has definitely changed.
 
When I was a kid, if I was bitten by a dog, Mom would most likely ask what I had done to cause the dog to bite me.  A kid's mother today would want to sue or have the dog declared vicious and PTS.  People watch movies like "101 Dalmations," then decide to go out and buy one, not knowing that Dalmations are one of the most genetically screwed up breeds there is.  I sure as hell hope people don't watch "8 Below" then decide a Husky or Malamute is the breed for them.
 
People expect instant results and, in some cases, they are able to get them.  All you have to do to lose weight is spend $153 for a bottle of pills.  You can put a gourmet meal on the table by popping a box in the microwave for 7 minutes.  You can train your dog to CGC level by watching some joker on TV every week.
 
Dogs haven't changed in 30 years.  Evolution doesn't work that quickly.  People, on the other hand...

As the original poster of this thread - I am asking all of you not to turn this into a bashing Cesar Milan forum.
 
My original question was do you see a rise in aggression problems - some of you have given excellent responses - on raising puppies w/o any boundries, seeing a "biting dog" where there is no more a dog playing rough, etc. 
 
I originally asked that everyone be polite - may I repeat that request?
 
Dianeg