dog whisperer and collar

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

Trevell, I am curious whether you have tried an Easy Walk Harness on your own dog.   I always think it's better to start with the least painful device and work up, rather than with the most painful and work down.
I don't have a problem with anyone using a prong if they can't control their dog on a less aversive device, but I am a proponent of humane control while *training* the dog to walk nicely beside the handler.

wow..that has to be the most coherent answer to the whole "what kind of collar" question I'veread so far. I've never been able to put it quite like that.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

A modified thin nylon choke fitted high on the dog's neck, under the chin, is what old-fashioned dog trainers call a dominant dog collar.  It is fitted high on the chin because that is the most sensitive area of the neck, where it's easiest to choke the dog and apply maximal pain. Yank n spank trainers use this collar to "correct" a reactive or aggressive dog by "hanging": lift the dog straight up off his feet. The pain and cut off airway usually shock the dog into stopping his current behavior. At least until next time. In actual practice many dogs "corrected" this way tend to get more reactive and more aggressive over time; others completely shut down.
Milan' s illusion collar is just a variant on the dominant dog collar. Apparently they used to show him "hanging" dogs on his show, but now they appear to cut those scenes out because they tend to be rather disturbing to watch.
If you're really having trouble controlling your dog, a prong collar fitted midway down the dog's neck is a humane option. However, if your dog is truly reactive, a program of desensitization will cure the problem and you won't need special collars.

Wow thats what i call "a negative way to see things", mmmmm ok let's use your point of view to see things in a negative way, mmm let's have an example of seeing something good and change it to something bad:

The Moon: A horrible thing that is not even a planet and blocks the opportunity of watching even more beautiful stars, affects the retty ocean making it getting bigger and covering more area of the white sand beach i would like to be at night but i cant because is cover by water, affects people in a negative way that make them think about killing themselves and even commit suicide when is showing in full. The Moon sucks [:'(]

Did i do it right? [], dont get mad at  me, i'm still learning how to change the way i see things to make them appear as negative and prove my point

The Moon: A horrible thing that is not even a planet and blocks the opportunity of watching even more beautiful stars, affects the pretty ocean making it getting bigger and covering more area of the white sand beach i would like to be at night but i cant because is cover by water, affects people in a negative way that make them think about killing themselves and even commit suicide when is showing in full. The Moon sucks

 
What?

ORIGINAL: chinook

The Moon: A horrible thing that is not even a planet and blocks the opportunity of watching even more beautiful stars, affects the pretty ocean making it getting bigger and covering more area of the white sand beach i would like to be at night but i cant because is cover by water, affects people in a negative way that make them think about killing themselves and even commit suicide when is showing in full. The Moon sucks

What?

I'm appliying the same way to see things just like mudpuppy does, tranforms something good into something totally negative by just changing the way to see it, i used the moon as example []

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy
Milan' s illusion collar is just a variant on the dominant dog collar. Apparently they used to show him "hanging" dogs on his show, but now they appear to cut those scenes out because they tend to be rather disturbing to watch.

Did you see this yourself and could you please point us to a particular episode? I doubt it because it isn't true.

For any uniformed person reading this thread you should be aware that the poster obviously is biased againt Mr. Milan and seems to be spreading false rumors.

Spiritdogs....how does "Scaredy Dog" compare to "click to calm"?

Scaredy Dog deals with reactivity, and that is often caused by anxiety or fear.  Click to Calm was conceived by Emma Parsons when she was working with her own aggressive dog, a Golden Retriever, and is based on the same general principles, but using clicker training.

As to espencer's jabs at mudpuppy, completely uncalled for, especially against a respected member of the forum.  Mudpuppy is entitled to an opinion that differs from yours, so get over it.

As to the illusion collar, in my opinion, it isn't a wonder device, any more than a prong is - neither takes the place of training.  Grab a clicker and some treats.  You can teach a dog to heel in a heartbeat.

Spiritdogs,
How many dogs have you trained to overcome aggression with using click and treat?

I'd imagine quite a few, as there are entire training classes/sessions devoted to that method and they get plenty of clients lol...

Asta,
I edited my previous post, my question wasn't stated clearly.

richard-dragin, perhaps you aren't aware that I train dogs for a living.  So, the answer to your question is "many".  Most "aggression" is rooted in fear or anxiety, and is better addressed by confidence building training, which means "communication".  It's relatively easy, once the dog understands that the clicker means "you did it right, that's the behavior I wanted".  Most people get in trouble trying to retrain reactive or aggressive dogs because they try to do it when the dog is already aroused, and at that time it's nearly impossible (which is why you see some people exert a lot of force over the dog - doing so will shut the dog down sometimes and make it appear to be compliant, but you haven't solved the root problem).

Spiritdogs, interesting, I read Click to Calm, my dog is HIGHLY reactive, but it's just noise, no aggression there really. Once he settles he'll be ok around other dogs, he just gets overly excited when he first sees new dogs. So from what I understand Click to Calm is oriented at true agression, mostly fear aggression. At first we thought it was actually aggression, but during his last obedience class the trainer was observing more closely, and she noticed that once all the barking is gone his body language is that of a "normal" dog, he'll walk up to another dog, sniff, allow the other dog to sniff him and then walk away. What we've been doing with my guy is the second a new dog comes into the pictures we work harder to keep his attention, walk him the other way or pull out a toy to get his...incredibly limited attention. We're getting to the point where there's some initial excietment, as loud and obnoxious as it's always been...but we can snap him out of it faster. Any comments or suggestions there?

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

richard-dragin, perhaps you aren't aware that I train dogs for a living.

Do you have a website?

Thanks, again, Spiritdogs. You're right on the money with what my trainer and I are doing wtih my scaredy dog, Murphy, and guess what? It's working! Those clickers are great because they tell the dog, in no uncertain terms, what he's doing is the right thing to be doing. When Murphy is really distracted (i.e., too close to strangers or thinks he sees a squirrel), it doesn't work, so I have to manage those situations for now.
 
Still--right on the money.

richard-
I do not.  One of the training centers I work at has not entered the computer age, sadly.  The other is at [linkhttp://www.pawsitivestepsk9.com.%C2%A0]www.pawsitivestepsk9.com. [/link] They are located in Kittery, Maine.

nfowler - glad it's working so well for you! []