Should my dog have surgery or be put to sleep?!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Should my dog have surgery or be put to sleep?!




    I saw Cesar Millan in Bradenton, FL,  just a few weeks ago, and have been reading his book and watching his shows.  I'm trying to be a good pack leader, but am afraid I failed miserably!  Now my dog's fate hangs in the balance...PLEASE HELP!  WILL YOU PLEASE RESPOND ASAP?! I need some advice about an incident that happened today with Nina - she's the little black Chihuahua mix that I've had for about a year.  She's always been very sweet and licks to death, but just recently, she's had a personality change.  Last week, I went to put the dogs to bed in the laundry room - now the "doggie den" since that's where their door is - and I couldn't find her anywhere.  I finally found her in the crate in the puppy parlor with the door open, curled up on a cushion.  She wasn't asleep, but I leaned down to talk to her and tell her it was time for bed, and reached in to pull her out.  She turned and bit my thumb!  I was shocked, and tried again to reach in and get her.  This time she attacked my finger, shredding the fingertip and leaving me with a black-and-blue nail.  That's still healing.   Then last night, she was curled up on a chair in the bedroom when I again told her it was time for bed.  I reached down to scoop her up like I always do, and she growled and turned to snap at me.  I yanked my hand back, and tried talking to her that it was okay while still trying to be Alpha, and she went for me again when I reached down again.  I tried to get her with the neck pokes that Cesar Millan recommends as a human mimicking an Alpha biting, but couldn't even do that because she was trying to bite so much.  I couldn't even get her by the scruff of the neck, so I had to go get the leash and loop it around her neck like a wild dog and drag her off to the laundry room. I was so angry about her behavior and challenging my authority both times that I could have just snapped her neck, but I just put her in the room and didn't give her the reward treat.  When she was in the crate I had to just leave her there and lock her in it overnight without food or water. I told my husband about it last night, and he was saying we should just get the heavy leather gloves so she wouldn't actually be able to bite me, and then keep her in a muzzle until she gets over it.  I totally don't believe in having a dog that is like that.  I thought last night about sending her off to a behavioral center, but didn't get the chance. Today, I took her and Smitty out on the double dog leash as always, but since their harnesses were in the wash, I just attached it to their collars.  As I was walking her down at the end of the street, she saw a Sheltie that was out front with it's owner off leash and went crazy, as always.  She's been leash aggressive, and I've tried to break her of it, but haven't made any progress.  This time, I gave her a yank like usual but the damn collar broke and the tags and huge hook came flying back and hit me in the eye.  I thought I had lost my eye, and turned to see the Sheltie on it's back with Nina on top of it and hackles raised.  I couldn't tell if she was fighting or not - usually she's really friendly with other dogs, although a bit jumpy if they're too sniffy.  I knew this Sheltie was really timid, and was afraid Nina was either hurting it or terrifying it.  I grabbed her by the scruff of the neck and pulled her off, and Nina bit my arm!  I threw her down - of course it had to be on bricks in the street - and she broke her thigh bone about 2" above the knee joint.  She was screaming in pain and trying wildly to bite me; I had to keep her in a headlock the entire time I raced home with her to keep her from biting me. I raced her off to the vet and he did the x-rays and told me he can fix the leg by inserting a pin that would stay for about four months then have to be removed.  He was concerned that the dog was having this biting problem and wonders if she may be mentally ill or just very unhappy.  He has the same opinion that I have - you don't save a biting dog.  But I just don't know what to do, because her behavior has been so weird and unexpected lately.  I wondered if she was sick with something and that's why she was biting, but the vet said there's not really any way to tell.  He thought if we ran a MRI that it might show something was off, but of course we're not going to do that. I just don't know what to do - I don't understand how she can go from being so seemingly happy and licking people to death most of the day, and then actually seriously bite me later!  She has never just mouth-bit or given warning; it was full-on attack biting drawing blood that I felt was unprovoked.  I didn't think I was being threatening to her or anything.  I try to maintain an alpha position as the pack leader to avoid problems, but she either didn't accept it or wanted to challenge it - both of which make me mad. I have no idea what the history is on this dog; I think she's about five years old.  I noticed when I first picked her up that she was really sensitive about that - maybe behind her front legs - and she turned and acted as if she might snap.  She seemed to get over that the longer I've had her.  She does have a history of acting leash-aggressive but just overly anxious to go socialize with the other dogs - not really to play, but just to check them out. Money isn't the issue about having her undergo the surgery.  I just don't know what the right thing to do is!  After suffering such a traumatic injury (especially at my hands), will she ever get back to a normal mental state, or will she always be afraid or untrusting or aggressive?  Why was she acting like this in the first place?  I just don't understand why she changed - and especially toward her pack leader!   What do you think could be the reason for this behavior change, and do you think she's worth saving?  I hate to put a dog down just because I was responsible for it's injury, but I also don't want to save one that isn't worth saving.  I didn't take her in with the idea of giving up on her, but I also have never believed in owning a snappy, bitchy dog.  As nutty as Smitty is, he's never tried to bite me - except the clipper when cutting his nails! I also have the dilemma in that she and Smitty are very bonded and play all the time.  They don't sleep together or anything, but they are best buds.  I'm wondering how Smitty will be without her, and if that might have a negative impact on his development.  He seems to be getting a little better with time. Will you please give me your honest opinion and advice?  I really need it!  I can't make this decision with a clear conscience until I've tried to at least ask the experts!  I just don't trust myself to do the right thing, especially since I was the one who hurt her.  I'm questioning whether I should even own animals! Thanks so much for your time and feedback - it means the world to me and I really respect your opinion and knowledge of dogs!
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: SmittyKel

    I saw Cesar Millan in Bradenton, FL, just a few weeks ago, and have been reading his book and watching his shows. I'm trying to be a good pack leader, but am afraid I failed miserably!


    For this reason exactly Cesar's tatics are not for every dog, or for every person. I'm sorry I'm not clear on this - did the behavior change come about after you started using the neck pokes and leash corrections?

    He thought if we ran a MRI that it might show something was off, but of course we're not going to do that.


    Why? Sudden behavior changes can often indicate health problems, and that would be a good alternative to putting her down.
    • Bronze
    I hope you don't have to put your dog down.  Are there any animal behaviorists in your area that you could use and/or it could be something physical.  Good luck.
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I am shocked that your vet did not recommend a complete blood panal AND a complete thyroid panal.  This behavior sounds like it has it's roots in a physical problem.  I'd be finding a new vet NOW.
     
    This is the problem with CM.....inexperienced folks try his methods and have disasterous results.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm afraid you have created this problem.  You have dealt with your dog by watching a TV guru who has recently been sued for animal cruelty, you are angry because you broke your own dog's leg, and now you want to euth her????
    For gosh sake, before you do that, set the leg, allow her to heal, and get help from a decent behaviorist.  In the meantime, have her trail a small leash around, so that you can get her if you want her without having to grab at her and get bitten.  If you can't do that, call Chi rescue, but IMO you have not done right by this dog at this point and she deserves proper care and a professional evaluation.
    Frankly, I question whether you should own animals, too.  You think something is wrong with the dog (I think it's the way she's been handled), but you won't pay for an MRI?????  WTF??? Most of us here would die for our dogs and you can't part with a few bucks to see if there's something wrong with her, or you've been doing something wrong?
    Being a leader has nothing to do with being harsh and neck-poking dogs.  I suspect you have tried to "dominate" this dog, and it isn't working as you had planned because the dog has no f-ing idea what you want - have you even attempted to get help from a good trainer?  CM is an idiot in my opinion.  He touts methods that are uncalled for with most pet dogs, and people are trying this crap at home and dogs are suffering because of it. 
    If you want to learn about dogs, read Jean Donaldson's "Culture Clash" and Pat Miller's "Power of Positive Dog Training".   That is, if you aren't really a troll.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    This time, I gave her a yank like usual

     
    By the way, this is what creates leash aggressive dogs.
    Read "Scaredy Dog" by Ali Brown, and "Feisty Fido" by Patricia McConnell.  They're cheaper than an MRI, which I doubt would show anything wrong.  It sounds like this dog's problems may be due to your inexperience and ignorance of what she needed.
    [sm=smack.gif]
    • Gold Top Dog
    You bring up a good point about the behavior problems and using Cesar's technique.  Thinking of it, I don't think the two are related.  I try to use just a gentle, firm attitude with her, and don't think I've ever had to do any corrections to her at all.  She's always acted this way on the leash, and usually I walk her with either a Halti head harness or the Easy Walk harness - both of which she hated, but it was easier for me to control her.
     
    As for the MRI, it's so expensive and my vet thinks it wouldn't really be helpful, even if it is conclusive.  If it shows she has some other health issues, such as cancer or a brain problem, there likely wouldn't be much we could do about it.  I don't think I would want to put a dog through that much treatment, such as radiation and chemotherapy. 
     
    Thank you so much for responding to my post - I'm still considering what to do!
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: SmittyKel

    and don't think I've ever had to do any corrections to her at all.


    I gave her a yank like usual


    Huh? You're totally contradicting yourself.

    Has your vet at least done a thyroid check?
    • Gold Top Dog
    I am literally biting my tongue right now.  But I'll go on without being judgemental.  I just want to get the facts straight, as I read them:

    You've had a Chi that has been "lovy-dovy" until just recently. 
    You've been watching Cesar Milan on TV.
    You began "poking" your dog in the side of the neck.
    You've been bitten repeatedly.
    Your dog got off the leash  after you gave the leash a few jerks and was on top of another dog (who was lying in submission.)
    You grabbed your dog, were bitten, and you threw the dog onto the concrete, breaking it's leg.
    Now you want to know if you should pay for proper veterinary care for you dog or put it to sleep?

    I think you need to get the dog's leg fixed, have proper and complete bloodwork done, read the books that were recommended to you, consult a trainer who will teach you how to be a real alpha, not just an alpha in your own mind and stop watching Cesar Milan!

    Chi's can be tough and strong willed, but you've given up alpha status to this dog.  Examine your daily routine, learn how to treat your dog as a dog, not as a child, poking the dog, as you know now, is a good way to get bitten.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Okay now I see in one of you other threads that you haven't had blood tests done. Thyroid imbalance can cause aggression and if your vet didn't recommend at least this very basic test I'd find another vet.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Tick born illnesses can also cause sudden behavioral problems.  I'd also add Click to Calm on your reading list. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    This has to be a troll. Either that or a horrifying cautionary tale on the dangers of DIY "dominance theory training." I really can't find it in me to say anything more.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I thought the same thing, jones.  I notice she hasn't been back on this thread.  Trouble is, I fear the dog may be dead by now if she was telling the truth. [sm=sad.gif]  If she wouldn't spend the bucks on an MRI, she probably won't do complicated fracture repair surgery either.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm afraid I cannot comment on this except that you need serious proffesional help.....in any/all way shape and form. I'm truly sorry. maybe a cat would suit you better
    • Gold Top Dog
    OMG I am appalled that anyone could treat a little animal in this way..I want to know what happened to the dog..poor little thing...I have to agree with Spritdogs answers to you.. and in my opinion you should NOT be allowed to own a dog ..