Dog Community

another pitbull aggression question

Posted : 6/19/2006 4:10:36 PM

Hello:

About 2 years ago, I adopted a spayed 1.5 year old female pitubull. She's always been a very good dog with no aggression problems. A year ago I adopted a 5 year old neutered male Rottweiller. The two of them have always gotten along splendidly and were always constantly playing. Tiva, the pitbull, is the dominant dog in the pack while Max, the Rottie, is the lowest. I also have an older female husky who pretty much ignores the other two dogs. About a week ago, Tiva started getting aggresive with Max to the point where he is afraid to come in the house. When he does come in the house, he slinks around and acts afraid of Tiva. The only ways she will leave him alone is when he is lying down on his bed. She is also friendly to him and plays with him on the beach like normal, but once we get home, it's back to slinking around and Tiva being a jerk. Max is staying temporarily with a friend of minef until I figure out what to do. I've tried time outs but it's not working. I don't want to give up either dog, but I also don't want Max to have to live in fear. Help!

Thanks,
Michelle

C K

Posted : 6/19/2006 4:42:33 PM

Dog aggression in Pit Bulls isn't quite like any other breed. The dogs can live completely dog-friendly for years and then suddenly decide they don't like the dog they grew up with. It's just a breed quirk and nothing you can prevent. There are some dogs that never become aggressive and some that suddenly become so at 5 years. You may just have to seperate them and let each have a few rooms of the house. Just a note, dog aggression is completely seperate from human aggression, Pit Bulls will not snap and attack humans. Don't be worried for yourself, but make sure you don't give them a chance to hurt eachother.

Elizabeth

Posted : 6/19/2006 5:56:54 PM

I'm no expert, but I wonder if maybe Tiva is beginning to take her role as alpha a little too seriously. I wonder if maybe you made it quite clear that YOU are the alpha dog, and that not only Max but she also is below you if that would make a difference. I'm not suggesting you beat her or anything like that, but maybe if you make her work for everything, like make her wait to go out or in the house until you let her, make her do something like sit down before she ever gets fed (even a tiny treat). Basically you would be exerting complete control over her and maybe that would make her feel less in control and therefor less dominant with Max. Like I said, I'm no expert, I'm just telling you what I would probably do in that situation.

Michelle

Posted : 6/19/2006 6:12:41 PM

Thank you both for your replies.

Fuzzdomestic - I, unfortunately, do not have a big enough house to be able to segregate them. Right now the weather is okay and I don't worry about Max being outside a lot (except that he loves attention) but I'm moving to Fairbanks, AK and it would be way, way too cold for him during the winter up there.

I had been wondering if it was a coming of age thing that was kicking in with her.   And, no I am not in the least bit worried about her biting me or being aggressive with me.

barngirl:   I do make her and Max go into a down/stay until I say, "okay" before they are able to eat their food.   I do have to segregate them when I feed them because Max will let Tiva eat his food if I don't.   She does not try to take the husky's food, though.   I also make her work for the treats that I give her i.e; sit, down or shake.   She is extremely intelligent and eager to please.    Maybe I need to make her work a little harder for it?   I've been reviewing Patricia McConnels books for advice on this but he's so scared it breaks my heart.

s abbott

Posted : 6/19/2006 11:54:19 PM

Setting aside the breed (because I am NOT going to ge into another debate about breeds), I would, if I had to, find a more suitable home for the agressive behaving dog. Of course, I would do ALL I could first, to correct the behaviour, but if I had to choose, I wouldn't punish the well behaved animal for being well behaved. I'd separate the badly behaving dog if it wouldn't learn.

I hope it doesn't come to that. I wonder if you could put them both in a class together and make them interact well again with the help of a trainer.

spiritdogs

Posted : 6/20/2006 5:27:59 AM

I wonder if you could put them both in a class together and make them interact well again with the help of a trainer.

Additional training will bolster the owner as leader, but I'm not so sure that having the dogs in the same class would be so helpful.
Given your Pit's age, I do worry about this. She's right at the age when status becomes more important to dogs, plus she's a Pit and might have the "oops, the switch just flipped" thing going on, too. If there is a good behaviorist with Pit/Rott experience, in your area, seek him/her out for advice.

probe1957

Posted : 6/20/2006 10:32:57 AM

I think what you are seeing is a Pit Bull who is dog aggressive. You can, if you want, manage it, but you can't eliminate it. Do some research and do it soon, would be my advice. From there, you will be able to make an informed decision as to whether or not a dog aggressive PB is something you want to try to deal with.

In the short term, you are doing the right thing by keeping the dogs separated. You may well have to do that for as long as you have them. I would also recommend getting or making a breaking stick and learning how to use it. Breaking up a dog fight, especially one involving a pit, without a breaking stick and the knowledge to use it, is a good way to get bitten.

Good luck with your decision.

Michelle

Posted : 6/20/2006 6:49:05 PM

Thanks for the advice.

So far, Max is the only dog she is aggresive towards.   She does not act aggresive to my older husky and does not even attempt to take her food away.   She just lays down, whines and acts like she is starving while my husky is eating.

Max has to come back to my house today.   Hopefully, it will go smoothly and there will be no fights.    So far, all it has taken to break up the fights is throwing a glass of water on them.

I do have an appointment with a dog trainer on Saturday to get some advice.   If I had to choose, I would choose to keep Ms. Tiva since she is not, so far, aggresive towards my husky.   My husky is epilieptic and Max barks and postures (he's never, ever attacked her) when she's having a seizure while Tiva just looks concerned.    He also barks at her at other times and it really annoys me.   She's mostly deaf and acts like it doesn't bother her, but it concerns me.

I am hoping my friend will miss him and decide she wants to keep him.

This is what I am used to:

HofmannGestalt

Posted : 6/21/2006 9:20:16 AM

I believe its a maturation & dominance issue both. Has she attacked the rottie? How old is thr rott again? Is she spayed the pitt?

Michelle

Posted : 6/21/2006 12:06:54 PM

HoffmanGestalt: Yes, she has attacked the Rottie but has not even come close to drawing blood. It has been serious and often enough to have him walking on pins and needles around her. She was spayed before I adopted her at 1.5 years, although my vet thinks she looks like she had puppies at some point before I adopted her. She is about 3 years old now and the Rottie is 6ish.

Jen Selmek

Posted : 6/21/2006 3:07:18 PM

I had 2 spayed females and a neutered male at one time. The one newly adopted female left the male alone for the most part, but the females fought after about 6 months. It started out easy to break up, and didn't happen very often. Then it became a monthly thing. We could use a spray bottle. Next we'd use a hose, then furniture to keep them from getting at each other, but it intensified to the point where they had to be pulled apart, and kept separated. They would have killed each other. This happened over the course of a year, we kept thinking/hoping it would stop, and sometimes they seemed like buddies. Don't let them together, and if you do, only with supervision, it may get worse. My vet said that they seem to get a taste for it. I used 2 trainers that couldn't do anything about the fighting females, and the 1 female had, oh so many more, issues.
Just to let you know that if it would go too far, dogs injured or worse, you or someone else getting bit; it would be very hard to rehome one of them. I wish I would have known.

probe1957

Posted : 6/21/2006 3:24:06 PM

Excellent point, Jen. The last thing in the world the OP should do, IMHO, is to ignore the behavior and assume everything is fine and dandy. I am afraid she will come home to a dead dog one day.

Michelle

Posted : 6/21/2006 5:14:45 PM

Thanks again for the advice. Right now my friend is 50/50 as to whether or not she will keep him but she's unable to keep him for the next 3 days. It would take a bit of rearranging her life to keep him permanently but she's considering it.

I definitely will not leave them unsupervised during the time that he's back.

Amanda R

Posted : 6/27/2006 3:46:08 PM

okay heres the thing, YOU have to take control of all the dogs! don't let them take control of each other take them for walks and have them both walking next to you. when the pit gets snotty correct her and roll her over to let the other dog stand over her then reward her, but not until YOU TELL her to get up. take them both for a very long walk and tire them out before attempting this, and also when you bring the other dog back home, dont show either of them as much affection as you used to for a while, i know its difficult but pits need direction just like any other dog. the more you show affection to the pit the more she thinks its ok to be mean to everyone else because affection is what omegas show to more dominant dogs. and if you show more affection to the less dominant dogs the alphas think they should work harder at keeping them away from you. any questions feel free to message me i've been raising pits for a long time.

Mic

Posted : 6/27/2006 4:25:29 PM

have to take control of all the dogs! don't let them take control of each other take them for walks and have them both walking next to you. when the pit gets snotty correct her and roll her over to let the other dog stand over her then reward her,

NO...NO...NO...

Do not roll any of your dogs over. This is extremely risky to do if you have not established yourself as leader. If you were the established leader you wouldn't have to roll the dog. So, please do not take the risk. There are loads of other ways to handle this situation.

Start with some obedience work. I would work with a professional to solve this problem (especially considering the breeds).