Dog Community

Two fighting males

Posted : 6/7/2006 9:45:14 PM

We have a lab mix (7 years old) and some other kind of mix that's 6 years old (don't know the breed), both of which are neutered. They were brought together in a new house 5 years ago and we have had fighting problems with them on and off for about the last 3 years. It used to be a fight once every six months, but recently it's gotten to be once or twice a month. Unfortunately, these are not just loud barking fights; they're skin breaking, tooth breaking fights. The fights usually start when one gives out a low guttoral growl for no apparent reason, then the other growls back and they end up too close together. The action happens so fast I can't really tell which one starts it. The six year old is generally all around grouchy, and sometimes growls even at me when I bend over his head to pet him (if I'm laying on the floor at his eye level, he doesn't growl). The older lab mix is always happy and sociable but can sometimes be grumpy with the other male.

The odd thing about this whole situation is that any other time they tolerate each other just fine and lay next to each other head-to-butt, so I've got a whole "Tom & Jerry" thing going on here. Has anyone else had this kind of experience or offer any suggestions?

Sean

s abbott

Posted : 6/10/2006 9:09:04 PM

I'd guess at jealousy issues.
When your not home, they likely get along fine most of the time since they can/have gone long periods before getting along.
If it is jealousy/insecurity I'd try to pet them simutaniously. When my dogs get jealous of eachother, I give the double hugs, double tummy rubs, double treats etc. They see they are both getting the same thing so they relax. Of course, that is not always possible & they have to know that too, but sometimes, they need double stuff to "show" the other dog they "get" too.

The other guess?
Maybe one is in pain and this is the attitude that sparks the other dog. The low growl might mean...back off..I am hurting, and the other dog gets defensive. I'd look into pain reason for them both. See is you can find a reason for pain or bring it up at the next check up at the vets. If one dog is in pain, the other will try to show dominance, especially if it's not the usual dominant dog of the two.
Read about recognizing pain in dogs. If you see signs (specific behaviours indicative of pain) in your pets have them checked out to find the root of the pain.

spiritdogs

Posted : 6/11/2006 7:13:39 PM

When fights go on for that length of time, I'd say it's status related. They are similar in age and desire to be boss, so they fight to iron it out. Males seldom kill each other, but it is unpleasant to have them butting heads all the time. Usually, the best thing to do is make sure they both have a clear idea that you are the leader. They should earn everything - NILIF. You decide who goes out first, you decide who gets fed first, you decide - everything.
Grab a copy of "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-Dog Household" by Patricia McConnell. I think you'll learn a lot about this dynamic.

Sean Buck

Posted : 6/14/2006 6:30:29 PM

Thank you both for the ideas. I'm pretty sure there's nothing pain / self defense related going on, but I think the status issue is probably hitting the nail on the head. That or they're just plain getting bored because we're not home during the day. Our vet prescribed something called calamadine (sp?) or something like that for the grumpier dog, and we have noticed a definite improvement. I would prefer to find a more natural long term solution other than medication, but for now we don't have broken skin or teeth!

Thanks again for the ideas.

agilebasenji

Posted : 6/14/2006 9:47:29 PM

If this is new behavior (or increasing), I'd have a full thyroid pannel done on both dogs. They're both about the age that the thyroid needs to be checked and hypothroidism can cause grumpiness. Not saying that you shouldn't do what spirtdogs has suggested, but if the thyroid is failing, trying to alter behavior can be an uphill struggle.

glenmar

Posted : 6/15/2006 6:53:43 AM

Agile has good advice. You want a FULL thyroid panal run and you want the blood sent to Dr. Jean Dodd's lab.....either her actual lab or the one at MI State since she SET up their lab and they carefully follow her protocols. Most labs use a generic one size fits all standard. Dr. Dodd's recognizes that thyroid standards for a chi and a st bernard shouldn't be the same.

spiritdogs

Posted : 6/15/2006 7:15:14 AM

That or they're just plain getting bored because we're not home during the day.

I don't think that's it - I think you also have a leadership problem. Any dog that growls when the human leans over him is either feeling that you are a threat or that you are insolent, LOL.
While you are ordering books, include "How to Be the Leader of the Pack" by McConnell.
Is the medication "clomipramine", otherwise known as Clomicalm? That is a commonly prescribed med for dogs with behavioral issues, and sometimes it's for life, sometimes not.