Dog Community

Aggressive ... when she wants to be ...

Posted : 5/29/2006 10:11:14 PM

Dweezil is 7 months old now -- a Cocker/Cairn mix. The woman I got her from did not want her ... for the first three months of her life, she wasn't really around people at all. The woman either crated her inside and never let her out ... or tied her up on the front porch with their other dog. So, when she first came home with us (in February), she was barking at everyone. She's gotten much better, knows not to bark at children ... but I took her to a national park picnic ground today for memorial day. It was horrible. She barked at people walking by on the gravel path, trying to get to them, growling. She has never bitten anyone, even when she has by accident (of course my fault) gotten close enough to. She just barks and barks and growls, and when people try to pet her she either completely calms down and is submissive, or barks and runs away. It is confusing because sometimes she's completely fine and ignores people as they walk by. But other times it's horrible, and scary, and also embarrassing. I've taken her to puppy class, and she's so much better with other dogs now, but again, sometimes, random dogs ... My boyfriend's grandfather suggested obedience school; I don't know how to begin looking for one. But (though this is horrible) I don't want to spend hundreds upon hundreds to fix a problem that might just be fixed with more socialization, but I dont know how to handle the socialization, because it always goes wrong when she's overwhelmed. It's just so hard because she's so unpredictable -- won't lash out for people until they're RIGHT in front of her ... But no problems whatsoever with people she knows, any children (even strangers that walk up to her she sits down to let the child pet her) ... I just don't know what to do!

bichinpanda

Posted : 5/29/2006 11:15:02 PM

I just read some of the archived aggression posts from the old forum -- I am going to start taking her on walks in the mornings when more people are out, and also to petsmart (where people understand people are there to train and socialize) -- and am going to bring a bunch of yummy treats so that when she approaches a new person she will learn to sit and associate new people with goodness. At first I wanted her to learn to be wary of strangers but not aggressive toward them -- but I think if I don't change this ... and teach her it's positive to meet people ... she'll remain too unpredictable. And I don't want this to escalate to something worse than some barking and growling.

Sandra TH

Posted : 5/30/2006 8:28:48 AM

Two of my three dogs are reactive to other dogs, and I have found that it helps to desensitize very slowly, from great distances to shorter distances. Lots of treats is a good idea, too.

It takes loads of patience and lots of time, but you can do it!

bichinpanda

Posted : 5/30/2006 9:06:37 AM

thanks for the support! I took her out on a twenty minute walk just now (couldn't take anymore, it's 90 degrees out and only 10am) and she barked at a dog in a house and at the man in the garage -- but i shoved a treat in her face and told her to sit and stop barking, and it seemed to snap her out of it. The man in the garage said he has the same problem -- the cocker inside started tearing at the blinds barking at us...made me feel a bit better, haha. Then, walking by a mother and her kid in a stroller (and Dweezil is usually terrified of bikes and strollers) and she totally ignored her and kept on movin. I think holding a treat in my hand just helps the entire walk in general.

Gonna take her on another walk later, and possibly to the pet store to try it out and also ask the trainer if she has any other advice. But, I think this will work.

Should I stick to the treats idea, or should I try the water bottle and squirting her? Maybe I should keep the water bottle idea to the house and when people come in? Or would that confuse her?

mudpuppy

Posted : 5/30/2006 9:30:40 AM

if she's AFRAID and that is causing the barking, squirting her with a water bottle may make it worse.
I'd continue with the treats. However, be careful. Don't offer the treat until she is quiet. If you keep giving her treats whenever she is barking, you are basically rewarding her for barking. Try instead asking her to look at you, or sit, or something. And you might want to take it a bit slower-- stay further away from bark-triggers and reward for not barking. Then get a little bit closer, and reward for not-barking.

bichinpanda

Posted : 5/30/2006 9:47:28 AM

Makes sense, I'll make sure that she sits and concentrates on the treat/being quiet before she gets it -- that's how it worked with the lady and her child, and if I remember correctly she sat down before I gave her the treat when we were in front of that man's house ...

Giving her treats when someone has entered the house never works well, though -- it still takes a lot of treats to calm her down. There was one time we tried the squirt bottle when she was barking just to bark (she was obviously not scared -- was goin for my friend's feet, etc, hair wasn't standing up), and that definitely worked fast. Then she was sitting down being good. I guess it's situation specific too.

spiritdogs

Posted : 5/30/2006 10:07:07 AM

Since she doesn't get aggressive when she gets off lead by accident, it sounds like she's reactive, not aggressive. Grab a copy of Ali Brown's book, "Scaredy Dog". There are lots of good hints on training a reactive dog.
Most people do exactly the wrong thing with reactive dogs, so it gets worse - trust me, get the book. It will help a lot.

Firestorm

Posted : 5/30/2006 10:14:28 AM

I would get the dog in obedience class. They offer classes through petsmart and I am sure you could check bulletin boards or groomers or ask other doggie owners where to go.

spiritdogs

Posted : 5/30/2006 10:34:26 AM

Actually, while it might be ok to take a class, I would not take a reactive dog to class at most Petsmarts. The trainers often have less experience with problem dogs, and the area they train in is small - you need to be able to give a reactive dog some "personal space" at first.
If you need to find a trainer, these sites can help:
[linkhttp://www.apdt.com]www.apdt.com[/link]
[linkhttp://www.clickertraining.com]www.clickertraining.com[/link]
Just be sure to ask if the trainer has experience with reactive dogs - and tell the trainer that your dog has not been aggressive while off leash accidentally.

bichinpanda

Posted : 5/30/2006 11:21:24 AM

I don't know that any classes at petsmart would do much. While it did socialize her to take the puppy class -- it didn't seem they knew too much about solving specific problems. I might ask the trainer for tips though. It's true, though, that she's pretty reactive, so when I bring her in... it's no good when she comes across a dog or person she feels like barking/growling at. I will definitely check out the book, spiritdogs, and I'm going to keep trying to bring her out and around people, but slowly, and moving in on the distance little by little.

Is "No Barking" too long a command?

Mary

Posted : 5/30/2006 2:00:08 PM

I am new to the forum and happen to come upon your e-mail. I have had experiences with a couple of my dogs being aggressive also. Diagnosing the kind of aggression your dog is projecting can be dangerous. Obviously your dog is not going to verbalize what she is thinking. In reading your e-mails, your dog has suffered some very traumatic and insecure situations. First from her original owner, and then moving in with you. She is not yet comfortable with her surroundings. And with each incident you too are growing insecure with her and that translates down to her. I would highly suggest that you get on a rigorous schedule of walking. In the morning, when you first wake up, at lunch ( if you can) and in the evening after dinner. She needs to be introduced to her new environment and territory. But most importantly....stop the treats. She is being rewarded for feeling aggressive. You reward her as she is showing aggression or after she has displayed aggression. Right now what your dog needs is be exercised and disciplined. The affection that you desire to give her, will come. But make her earn it. Most dogs want to please their owners. Dogs that are nervous, frightened or dominant, will either flee or fight. As you said, you don't want this to escalate. If you truly want was is best for your dog, be her alpha and lead her into good behavior. When she has done that, then show her all the affection she has earned.

There is more to how to properly walk your dog. Contact me at the forum and I will tell you. There is always hope for a dog with a loving owner. Don't give up.

Pam

Posted : 5/30/2006 2:08:33 PM

This sounds like a case for the DOG WHISPERER. He would say don't let her bark escalate, he always says "SHZZZZ" like "shush' at the first bark. He would iinsist on daily walks where you are the alpha holding the leash relaxed but near her ears. He says a tired dog is a very good thing ( take them for 45 min walks) Sounds like you are doing the right thing walking .

I would not trust Petsmart to not damage my dog further. You need a behavorist. Try to catch the Dog WHisperer on National Geographic if you have it.

I adopted a very scared dog. I thought he could be fear bitter. I never dreamed of taking him in Petsmart. I did what you are doing, taking hotdog bits on our walks, stopping strangers on my street, explaining my dogs problem and can we chat for a moment to get him used to people. People were great and would chat with me, the dog was very nervous, but over a years time, he got used to being near people. I never let them pet him as he would be visible scared. Now, he has made some freinds and even lets some male neighbors pet him. He will always be a wary dog as that is his breeds standard - Gordon Setter (to be wary of strangers), but that is ok He is nice to kids tho, letting them pet him.

I think you have be cautious with your cocker mix as they are known to bite kids.

bichinpanda

Posted : 5/30/2006 6:19:47 PM

Today has worked out really well -- I took her on a couple of walks, and when in the back yard, one of our neighbors (who she loves to bark at) came outside to adjust his sprinklers. she started barking, I said, "SZZHHTT" (that dog whisperer sound) and told her to stop barking and she saw her treat and walked over to sit down. After that she just concentrated on me. Then, she started to bark a little bit again and I did the same thing (this time she hadn't seen the treat first) and she was quiet and let him do his stuff. I am a little afraid that she'll look for the treat, but I think she's already starting to understand that she gets rewarded for shuttin up. We also had some people in the house and she went to bark at them and she saw her treat and heard me and sat down and let them pass.

As for Cockers with kids, I know the deal -- my uncle has a purebred (i'm still terrified of that dog) -- but I've been amazed, she literally sits down to let the kids pet her. I've never seen her really bark at any kids, come to think of it. Now she loves to follow my little cousins around and sit next to them. It's confusing...but I guess it's good ...

spiritdogs

Posted : 5/30/2006 7:22:57 PM

Maybe her breeder had kids and she remembers. To this day, Sequoyah loves little girls - there were two where she was born, and even though she left there at 10 weeks, I think she was very bonded to them, and remembers small girls as a pleasant thing.

bichinpanda

Posted : 5/30/2006 8:13:52 PM

that makes a lot of sense -- the woman had two kids and they were the only members of the family that ever interacted with her -- they were the reason I got her (they ran around my boyfriend's grandmother's neighborhood looking for someone to take her before their mother gave Dweezil to the pound) ... this might also explain her weird behavior around adults...