Rescue dog still peeing in the house

I've got to side with Glenda and Spiritdogs on this one.  No reason to "spank" a dog exists.  In addition the dog has NO CLUE as to why you're "spanking" it anyways.  Rubbing a dogs nose in it's waste only makes the dog smell like it's waste and confuses the animal more. 
 
Also limiting water makes good sense until the dog is completely house-trained.  A dog will not dehydrate overnight, unless there is an extreme medical problem.  If the owner has an aversion to crating, an Xpen equipped with puppy pads might work. Or the owner could try putting a stuffed soft toy in the crate so the dog can snuggle with it. 

 id always heard that white vinegar actually is an enzyme destroyer, sorry if thats wrong.

Jaye it does a really good job for OUR noses.....but not for THEIRS unfortunately.

a question regarding rubbing noses in the mess...
if the dog were to piddle right there in your presence, and saying 'no' in a commanding voice (this is as it is happening) does not deter or stop him, is rubbing the nose not conveying the message immediately? i understand the nanosecond memory issue with dogs, and have had my share of really good ones...unfortunately i've never dealt with a rescue dog before though and he seems to have not had any rules, boundaries or limitations in regards to proper indoor behavior until now.

in the meantime, we've tried an indoor leash in the area our zuni and us recreate in and regular 20 minute potty breaks with treats and praise for outdoor made water...so far so good.

 

Let me set a scene for you.  You are in the bathroom midstream and someone yells at you to stop.  Can you?  Can you stop and KEEP the flow stopped?  Try it sometime...its pretty tough.  For some reason the only time the phone EVER seems to ring is when I'm in the bathroom.....and I can either try to stop or hurry up and finish and it's USUALLY more effective to hurry up and finish.
 
I foster and I never seem to have ONE pup at a time to housetrain.  So, I become the jack in the box.  There always seems to be a rythem in my house.  After the meal, after the outdoor play and potty, everyone wants to lay exactly where I am.  So if ONE gets up and leaves, I've got a pretty clear idea that s/he has to potty.  At that point I'm going stand up and ask "wann go OUTSIDE and go POTTY?"  Once out I tell them "go potty" and then I praise like crazy for the "goooooood potty".  Now if I'm a nanosecond to late I'll say "Unh uh....not there....OUTSIDE to go potty" and scoop that pup up and rush him/her outside.  And I always have towels at hand so that I don't get covered in pee.
 
NO isn't a word that I use.  I will use it WITH another word, but about the only time is "no bite" and simply because I haven't been creative enough to come up with another term.  NO doesn't tell the pup what I WANT him to do, so by saying NO, I've given him only a partial instruction and in the absence of complete instruction, what's a pupper to do?  On the one hand he's got me saying NO, which tells him nothing, and on the other hand he's got a very FULL bladder begging for release.
 
Truely the most effect way to CHANGE a behavior is to PREVENT that behavior in the first place.

Rubbing the dogs nose in it's own exriment is not only cruel, but deadens the receptors in the dogs nose and you are only setting the dog up for failure. Besides making the dog affraid of you or humans in general and hand shy.
 
Positive training is a better option. Don't set the dog up for failure, cause that is what you will end up with in the training.

whoever owned jake before me must have taught him the word no, i use it and he knows whenever i say no to stop whatever hes doing.  it works everytime.   im not saying it would work for potty training but it is a useful word. 

Glenmar ... you make a ton of sense. 

I don't really know that much about training dogs since Angel is my first and she is only 8 months old. I do know that she is doing better everyday with the potty training. I do not have a doggie door, but She knows she is supposed to go outside because the only place she pees in the house is right by the door. It did not start out that way and is took a really long time for her to realize that she is not supposed to go in the house. It took me at least 3 or 4 months to get her to understand that she is supposed to go outside, and I am sure that it will take longer for a dog that has learned bad habbits to get out of them especially if the habbits have been going on for a year or more. I know cleaning up messes in the house are a pain, but if you keep praising good behavior she will eventually get it. I did not crate train my dog because I could not sleep and she did not give up as long as she was in the crate. What I did and it sounds like you could do it too is leave my door closed and taught her to scratch (yours already scratches). When she scratches take her outside (and stay with her) if she potties praise her and take her straight back to bed. I know that sometimes it doesn't work because you may sleep through the scratching but over time my dog has learned that if the scratching doesn't wake me up she has to wake me up somehow. Also, if you can restrict access to the rooms she potties in at night, close the door or put up a baby gate if possible. Like I said this is my first dog, but I have learned that just being consistant has taught her to go out and now she comes and gets me when she needs out. Praise and being consistant has worked for me, but I also had to learn to be patient. It took months, but it worked. Oh, just another thought sometimes they pee where they know they shouldn't when they are mad at you. My dog peed in the middle of my bed when I came home from my Honeymoon at the end of March just because we left her with my parents for 4 days. (She was trained to go outside by then).

Again, NO tells your dog NOT to, but doesn't tell him what you want him to do.  So you are giving only a partial instruction and expecting him to know what you want.  That's not fair.

You make a very good point.  Restricting freedom of movement is a good step, if one isn't going to crate train.  Most dogs do NOT want to soil in their den.  Dogs want to eliminate waste away from where the "pack" situates itself. 

and heres the part where i go against the majority again, i dont agree with the suggestions about using the crate.  i think its cruel. 

Most normal dogs acclimate to being crated for short periods while they are being housetrained.  Crating is only cruel if the dog is not properly acclimated to the crate, is left in the crate too long, or if the crate is used as punishment.  It is not a "cage", it's merely a safe spot to leave a dog that may chew your antique table legs otherwise, or soil your oriental rug.  It is not a substitute for adequate supervision, including adequate exercise.  I use crates for most dogs, not for some.  As an example, I might rather tether a dog, instead of crating, if the dog suffers from separation anxiety, while I am housetraining it.
Try cleaning with Petastic.  It's better than vinegar and most of the enzymatics.
Also, don't expect a dog to go 10 hours without relieving itself.  Some dogs can do this easily.  For others, it's difficult.  Some dogs, especially spayed females, may start to have "accidents" due to weakness of their urethral sphincters, and may need to void more or be put on medication (PPA or DES).

i agree crates have their uses, but all of a sudden sticking a dog in a crate all night long every night when she hates it, thats what i think is cruel.
 
 

The dog needs to be confined someplace and if not the crate than shut in a bathroom or someplace where she doesn't have access to the carpet that she's peeing on.
 
Crueler than the crate would be for an owner to decide that they just FLAT cannot deal with the nocturnal peeing and take the dog to the shelter.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Again, NO tells your dog NOT to, but doesn't tell him what you want him to do.  So you are giving only a partial instruction and expecting him to know what you want.  That's not fair.

 
when i tell jake no i dont want him to DO anything.  i want him to stop doing whatever it is he is doing because i dont like it.  and it works!  he stops the behavior and we go on with our day.  how is that a partial command?  how is it not fair.  he understands it perfectly.