Stop Thief!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Stop Thief!

    My dog is the biggest clepto anymore.
    We have a 1 yr old female yellow lab that thinks the best game ever (even knowing she will get into trouble) is to steal something she knows she isn't to have and then BOLT or play Chase.
     
    She used to only steal a straggling shoe that was left accidently unattended, but she is getting progressively worse, seems to steal more frequently and more of anything.
     
    Here is her M.O.  If she is inside...she takes the item (sock whatever) swipes it and runs to the dinner table.  Then as we try to call her to come, catch her, or briber her (tried all of the above) she knows better and keeps running.  It usually takes two of us, as we have to corral her in.  Same goes for outside, although it much harder to corner her in the backyard.
     
    What I am at loss is how to correct her from doing this?  Some have said tie her up or Kennel her when she does this but others say no because then she will learn to not like her kennel, etc.  Some say correct her, others say no, but trick her do do a trick.  Nothing seems to work very effectively, but I'm willing to pick one tried and true method and be consistent with it, if others have had success.  The problem is getting out of hand because we used to be able to have her off leash out of the yard with us and she minded (would come when we called) but now she is getting to where she won't do that...and I want to make sure we don't ruin the ability to trust her off leash.
     
    Anyone have any methods that have worked well for them?!! I'm open to all suggestions!!!
     
    Thanks so much!
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I don't know what others think, and I'm not really experienced with this sort of problem, but wouldn't it work best to simply ignore her when she does this (assuming the object will not harm her)?
    My logic that your pup thinks (knows) that this is a high-value object, and that grabbing it will bring attention and fun! If you ignore it when she grabs things, she will get bored with it, and maybe not do it anymore. I think it depends though - what does she do with the object (sock, etc) when she stops running with it? Does she chew it by herself, or look at you and wait for the chase?

    Another idea, not sure if it is good or not, is to keep a 6 ft nylon leash on her in the house, so that you can catch her if you need to.
    The best advice I have to give though, is don't give any commands if you can not enforce them. It lets her know that obeying commands is not always necessary, which is definately NOT true.

    Hope that helps for now. We'll see what others think.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Well, the obvious answer is to put stuff up so she can't get it.  If she DOES, well, don't chase her.  Act as if you have absolutely NO interest in what she's stolen...cuz the second you do, you are playing her game...and that's what this is, just a game that you and hubby are BOTH willing to play.  How fun....I can get BOTH of them to play if I pick up the sock and run with it!!
     
    You need to work on two commands....LEAVE IT and DROP IT.  Should she head for the sock, tell her leave it, and when she turns to look at you praise her like crazy and call her to you for a treat.  If she IGNORES you and picks the danged thing up, tell her DROP IT.  You might have to trade to get the item back, and I honestly have never done that, but Anne can explain it to you.
     
    But, the biggest success is going to come from flat out not leaving stuff around for her to swipe.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thanks, those are both good ideas.
     
    We tried the ignoring thing...but she is a chewer and that won't work...if its something like a shoe, garden shovel...even fencing...if she thinks she can grab it and run with it...she tries!  She grabbed a big tarp that I was putting away the other day...and I had to laugh because she was having a tough time running and keeping it in her mouth.  I know chasing is bad...but not sure what else do to when I need to get it.
     
    We try to keep things up and out...and she has been really good lately...but she is getting more bold lately...probably testing her boundaries.  She likes praise...unless a good game of chase is an option, but I'll just try I guess to be more consistent...the problem is...she is so quick...she usually has it way before I can tell her to leave it.  She used to drop it when we told her to drop it...but not so much now.  She will drop it when she knows she is cornered...then she acts all good then...she is such a stinker.
     
    What about correction aftwards?  Bad? Good?  Should I put her in time out in her kennel?  Tie her up for a time out?  Do a correction with a pronged collar?  Are all those bad ideas?  I would obviously rather correct her prior to the event and reward her for NOT doing it...but what about the times I can't?  Just praise her anyways when she finally stops? 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Whoa!  Is she wearing a prong collar ALL the time?  She absolutely should not be.  Prongs are a training too for LEASH work only.  Leaving one on all the time is extremely dangerous.
     
    OK, you corner her, even tho you shouldn't have chased her in the first place, and she drops whatever she stole, so now that she's finally done what you told her to do you're gonna PUNISH her?  Think about that one.  Actually, it sounds to me like she's in that bratty teenage stage and is just pushing the limits a bit, AND engaging you in a game that she's clearly been practicing for quite some time.
     
    We often have foster litters so I usually have more dogs than I know what to do with....especially considering that I have 6 gsds of my own....and I'm fanatical about two things....putting EVERYTHING up, behind closed doors, or away in some way shape or form, and keeping an absolute eagle eye on dogs.  Awful good thing they are so darned cute!
    • Gold Top Dog
    What I am at loss is how to correct her from doing this?

     
    Grab a cookie or a hunk of roast beef and say "trade?" as you offer it to her.  Most dogs drop the sock and take the beef.  What you are doing is teaching her the word "trade".  Pretty soon, instead of having to chase her, you can just wait for her to bring you stuff. [;)]
     
    You have actually taught her that if she grabs stuff, you will chase.  Know what most Labs' favorite game, other than retrieve, is?  Yup, chase.  Why would she stop stealing???
     
    After you teach trade, teach "leave it" (so you can stop her from grabbing items in the first place).  Do this by putting her on a six foot leash.  Toss a milk bone on the floor.  Don't pull her, and don't say her name, just hold tight on the leash and say "leave it", "leave it" over and over until she looks back toward you.  At that very moment, you say "gooood leave it" "take it" (as you shove a piece of roast beef in her mouth).  The idea that the dog needs to "get" is that no matter what she wants, you always have something better for her.
    Next, you want a really good recall, so you can say "leave it - come!" and the dog gets to your feet immediately.  For that, get Leslie Nelson's DVD or booklet, "Really Reliable Recall".  Trust me.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Ahhhh, good.  I'm glad you found this thread Anne.  I was hoping you'd post the TRADE "rules"!! [:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thank you all for your advice!
    She is a good dog, and we have worked with her on commands, we just need to be more consistent...I see that now.  We don't leave the prong collar on all the time...just when we have her on leash or trying to work with her off leash so we can give correction. 
     
    We worked so well with her when she was a puppy that she was such a good dog, so I think we sorta relaxed a bit too much and like I said, need to remain consistent.  NO more chase...and just make sure we put things away.  I understand it will happen from time to time, and realize it is just her way to "engage" us if we aren't paying enough attention to her or she wants to play.  I just need to make sure I don't chase.
     
    (repeat 10 times.... DONT CHASE DOG...DONT CHASE DOG.....)
     
    Thanks for your help!!!
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Well, the obvious answer is to put stuff up so she can't get it. If she DOES, well, don't chase her. Act as if you have absolutely NO interest in what she's stolen...cuz the second you do, you are playing her game...and that's what this is, just a game that you and hubby are BOTH willing to play. How fun....I can get BOTH of them to play if I pick up the sock and run with it!!

    You need to work on two commands....LEAVE IT and DROP IT. Should she head for the sock, tell her leave it, and when she turns to look at you praise her like crazy and call her to you for a treat. If she IGNORES you and picks the danged thing up, tell her DROP IT. You might have to trade to get the item back, and I honestly have never done that, but Anne can explain it to you.

    But, the biggest success is going to come from flat out not leaving stuff around for her to swipe.

     
    Well said!
    • Puppy
    Josh, I first posted this last July 11-14th.  But, I can't tell you how to find them with the new Search system.

    [size=5]Adolescent Mischief

    I can smile at it: anger does no good.
    [/size]
    Quick background: I sit in a wheelchair 24/7/52 and live alone with 5 dogs, in 3 rooms and 2 halls of an inaccessible 8 room house. So, the schematics are not ideal.

    MY 10½ months-old twins were whelped and have been raised in the family room. Their current "crate" is a 30" high ex-pen configured 2' x 6', with 2' x 2' panels clipped on top. It runs along in front of a couch and out from a recliner, with an 8' to 14" passage, depending on how they re-configure their "crate." In the corner, between the couch and the recliner, is a door which is open for ventilation in summer. The doorway is block by a chest with boxes on top, which contain doggy treats and toys.

    Got the picture? 

    Your dog is about a year old: she is in adolescence. What? You don't think dogs go through a distinct adolescence –with attendant adolescent behavior.

    The day before my nearly 100 pound twins turned 10 months old, I wrote a longer piece on this to post to ot-adogs at Yahoo! groups (before I realized Yahoo! lost our list, again). If you need another expert opinion, read "Surviving Your Dog's Adolescence: A Positive Training Approach." The book's author Carol Lea Benjamin is highly respected among dog trainers. Her writing is chatty and a bit too comedic at times. But, her method is aimed at producing a happy companion dog that you don't feel you have to hit with a two-by-four to get its attention. Believe me, in the months ahead, there will be moments.

    I knew it was lurking around the corner. See, these are my 4th and 5th adolescents in three years. Like real kids: you don't just drop them off at 10 and pick them up at 22, all nice and calm and properly behaved. No! We have to suffer through our youngsters' adolescence. And, my suffering –times two– has only just begun.

    One minute you are thinking how nicely they are maturing, getting big, learning to be obedient companions. The next, you discover some atrocious (or just plain galling) behavior has been perpetrated behind your back.

    The night it happened. I fell asleep in the kitchen. Most likely, I had paused mid-reach because Deko had fallen asleep between me and the counter. When I woke hours later, Deko was still sleeping beside me in the same position. Their mom, Zelka, was keeping watch by the hall door.

    You see, I always take an accounting when I wake up. Especially if the twins are not outside or locked in their cage. I had to turn around to see where Reubens was. He was stretched out on one of the three dog beds, head hanging down over the side bolster –sound asleep, so he would have me believe.

    I was dumbfounded before my eyes reached THE TWIN.

    What can I say?

    The kitchen was strewn with white polyfill and green foam. The twenty-seven by forty, four-inch-high bed which had survived, intact and unscathed, the puppyhoods and adolescences of Izusa, Jin Ka, and Zelka was attacked, its heavy-duty zipper chewed through and brutally ripped asunder, the extra dense, two-inch foam's exposed corners had been rounded by chunks torn from them, and the end of the inner bag TOTALLY –gone!

    This happened while I was in the room, albeit asleep! It is not separation anxiety. And, dont' confuse this stage with idle puppy chewing. This goes to a whole 'nother level with broader misbehaviors and psychology. This is a complication of adolescent, behavioral boundary testing. Other manifestations include turning a deaf ear to the voice of authority, aphasia on well-known command words, territorial challenges (your couch, etc., or hers), and … oh, yeah, stoicism.

    Removing bedding, toys and other objects, will save you replacement costs: but, it won't cure the problem or "teach" the adolescent any lesson. (Double-sided, sheepskin mats are pretty durable, with no stuffing to pull out.) As ratty as it gets: leave it. Afterall, it is hers.

    I don't believe that a dog confronted in an angry voice with the destroyed object clearly indicated, has no idea what you are angry about. But, don't count on contriteness preventing the next occurrences. A really unpleasant consequence, or Bitter Apple®, may deter some repeat behavior. But, the next time it will be a different target.

    The good news is adolescence ends –in eight to ten months, in most working breeds. Although a few breeds are known for protracting adolescent behaviors until about the twelfth of never. You could figure on a lifetime destruction quota of about $5,000.  (THE TWIN put about $125 on the tab that night.) A better approach is crate, or pen, her any time you can't watch her. Also, keep her busy in training games and shadowing you as you go about your activities, or chewing on something like Kong®, or rope, toys that do not perpetuate the satisfaction of pulling out "chunks" of something.

    Ah, cheer up, it could end sooner. Zelka, was as bad as they get: Chairs, leather pocketbooks, her leash, sneakers. She even quick-as-a-wink stole a new, unopened bag of Jelly Beans: and, opened the heavy-duty, zip bag without any damage! Until, at sixteen months, she pulled over a stack of hoppers containing about seventy video cassettes. The racket had her shaking. I made her stay beside me while I righted it and picked up every cassette with my reacher. To this day, I don't think she's ever tried to misappropriate anything else.

    The family room was their mom Zelka's adolescent domain. So, it has already been initiated with damage. Zelka was so bad I had to (long) leash her to my Poki Girl's old crate which is still opposite the twins'.

    Don't jump down on me! unless you've had a rip-roaring adolescent Rott, and handled it from a wheelchair. I also had 2 young pups and 2 very compromised, senior dogs –and a timid cat who was not inclined to accept the new dogs, except the Cairn. How ever did I do it? Zelka got plenty of time loose inside and outside. I spent hundreds of hours, one-on-one with her. But, when I needed to be able to turn my back on her in the house, it was the best solution.

    So, yesterday we were all in the family room. I was typing at the webtv. My ears picked up on the unmistakeable sound of a toy that I knew I had not given them. I twisted around to see Reubens (always "The Instigator") in the remote corner with a chenille, Christmas mouseman. My first thought was: It won't last five minutes.

    I brightly asked, "What's you got?" He continued mouthing it. In a cheerful tone, I gave the command "Come-Show." They are all familiar with this but, adolescent deafness was turned on. He gave me no acknowledgement and continued mouthing the purloined toy. I put down my keyboard and encouraged my pack to go with me to the kitchen.

    Having been called specifically, Reubens showed up last, mouseman in his mouth. The twins are not good at "Give" (my fault: the word is hard to say and I need to be more diligent at remembering to sub the Spanish word "Saca"). They are better at responding to my outstretched, cupped hand. Deko sometimes seems eager to give me something spontaneously, as will Zelka.

    This instance, Reubens had brought the toy to the game. And, with adolescent deafness turned on, he was content just to carry it in his mouth. In fact, it is one of his traits: he likes to just hold, or carry, an object in his mouth indefinitely. One day he went out with a large piece of rawhide in his mouth. When they all came in, hours later, it was still in his mouth, still the same size, albeit dirtier. I have no doubt that he held it in his mouth the whole time!

    So, "Come-Show" was not going to get a relinquish. At least, not before a game of "Pass Off!" It is so amazing to watch –I wish I could set up a videocam. But, you would need several at dog head height to capture the action. It is as fast, smooth, and silent as a pro basketball game! Deko, Reubens, Zelka and Izusa all have heads about the same height. It's an equal court except for Jin Ka, my Cairn. The amazing thing is: the game always ends with the object being brought over and presented to me! (Usually by Deko or Zelka.) For which I lavish praise and pats, never treats! and permit kisses –the twins' favorite reward.

    Why not food treats? Because these are Service Dogs and they need to be reliable performers at all times. I doubt that I will ever be able to grab a treat when I need something removed so I can move freely in my wheelchair. With most breeds (even food-focussed Rotts), emotional bonding is the greatest performance motivator.

    Anyway, I had the toy and put it up on the counter and turned to some local task. Minutes later [:)] out comes Reubens with another purloined toy! Happily, he showed it off and relinquished it. He got the lavish praise and pats and was permitted abundant kisses. After which, I went back to doing whatever. Believe it! Moments later [:D] out he comes again with yet another toy! He came directly to me, showed it off and relinquished it. He was rewarded just as lavishly as before.

    Then, I hustled them all outside. I didn't know how many toys were within his reach on the chest but, I knew that I didn't want them all out on the kitchen counters.

    I've admitted often that I am not a good task trainer. The "say the word+force the behavior+reward" approach just doesn't work for my abilities and situation. I've raised enough of my own Service Dogs to know that I run a fine line when trying to discourage unwanted behaviors without setting taboos against similar behaviors that will be desired when they are under my control. The method I've developed, and continue to refine, is messy, tricky, and time-consuming. But, oh, the rewards!

     
    Notice that I did not chase Reubens, nor did I engage in the game of "Pass Off."  Instead, I called my pack to follow me to another room, where I waited for the item to be offered me.  While he is making ;progress towards the boredom of maturity, Reubens has not met with enough of a traumatic result to give up his thievery, yet.  His twin is far calmer.  They both know "LEAVE-IT!" means not only don't take it but also drop it and walk away.
    • Bronze
    Long leash!
    Tie a long thin roap to her collar. Instead of chasing her down (aka playing with her) when she blots, step on the rope to stop her. Then try the drop and give commands.
    The chasing is probably why she is stealing. It is fun to be chased :)
    Not so much fun to be stopped dead in your tracks by a quick step on a long lead :)