Learning about behaviors

    • Gold Top Dog

    Learning about behaviors

    To those of you out there who are "animal behaviorists", I am wondering what the certifications are.  What are the credentials?  Where do you get your training?  I am not asking this tongue in cheek or sarcastically, I am genuinely interested.  Is it like becoming a vet where you have to go to school for a number of years, etc?
     
    Animal behaviors, specifically dog, is fascinating to me and I was wondering if you could recommend some good resources for the average person.  I am NOT looking to learn a little and call myself a trainer or behaviorist, I am looking for some interesting, understandable and informative reading that will help me to understand my dogs better.
    • Silver
    I wouldn't call myself a behaviorist, but I too find the topic fascinating.
     
    A good book on how people and dogs communicate and dog behavior is The Other End of the Leash by Pat McConnell. 
     
    The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson is a book that many people rave about, although I have not read it.
     
    My favorite behavior book is Animals in Translation by Temple Grandin. When I finished it I felt like I just completed a college course called Overview of Behavior 202. I was constantly learning something so interesting and new to me that I had to shut the book and let it sink in before I could continue. The first part of the book is good. When it took off for me is when she starts talking about the current scientific thinking and studies on behavior, emotion, learning, language etc. etc. She gives enough detail on the studies so that you can really understand it, but not so much that it is boring or confusing for the non-scientist. I also like the tone. Not overly sentimental and anthropomorphic, but she is not afraid to acknowledge the real similarities between us and other animals. Based on science.
     
    One thing I like about The Other End of the Leash and Animals in Translation is that both also talk about human behavior. In order to really understand our relationships with other animals, we have to understand ourselves, how humans work. We are half the equation.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    For the average dog owner, you could go to [linkhttp://www.dogwise.com]www.dogwise.com[/link] and read their top ten best books for owners list.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I am a behaviorist and I have a Masters in Applied Animal Behavior from Indiana University.  In my personal opinion (no offense to anyone) you are not a "behaviorist" unless you have some kind of graduate degree in some kind of animal science. 
     
    I am currently pursuing my PHD...and will hopefully finish it before I die ;-)
     
    There is tons of material out there regarding animal behavior.  Read everything you can get your hands on and work to draw your own conclusions.
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I am not an "animal" behaviorist.  I am a school psychologist.  My training comes from my masters work at OSU (ohio) and two years as a research assistant on applied behavior analysis projects during that time.  I have been practicing in the field for 20+ years.
    • Gold Top Dog
    oops  as to what to read.  Best primer I know:  Karen Pryor's Dont Shoot the Dog
    • Gold Top Dog
    In my personal opinion (no offense to anyone) you are not a "behaviorist" unless you have some kind of graduate degree in some kind of animal science.

     
    You haven't offended me, Mic, but I submit that that's what people say as soon as they get the degree LOL.  There are a lot of folks with grad degrees who are not qualified to diagnose squat, as you know.  The reason I say that is that, unlike you, they have no real hands-on experience with dogs.  As an example, there is a lovely lady in my area who has studied hard, is recognized by two behavioral societies, but has limited experience.  She can recite the material she learned, but cannot apply it to her own dogs, who are ill-behaved, and do not come when called.  On the positive side, at least they don't have separation anxiety. [;)
     Conversely, I know trainers who have baccalaureates, associate degrees, or no degrees, who are extremely good "behaviorists" because they have devoted their lives to the study of dogs, both in the literature and in real life.  Of course, if an owner is seeking a behaviorist, it makes sense to ask for qualifications and background, since you would have no way to know how good those people are without inside info.  The caveat is that you can't really know how good a behaviorist is by the degrees they hold either. 
    I myself have a cum laude BS in Psychology.  But, I have an extensive dog library filled with the works of leading trainers and behaviorists, and I have over 40 years experience working with and around dogs, both in training & shelter environments.  I don'tcall myself a behaviorist, since the definition does imply an advanced degree, which I do not have, but when I have referred clients to behaviorists or veterinary behaviorists, usually the only difference between my advice and theirs is the ability to prescribe medications.
    Anyone can learn, and I would say that we have some pretty savvy owners on this board who have done that.  The only thing holding anyone back is not starting the process.  [:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Ok, thanks for the ideas on books, I appreciate it.  Now, when someone says that you need need to see a behaviorist versus a trainer, what (besides a degree) are the real differences?  Why one professional over the other?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Training implies learning various behaviors such as sit, lie down, stay, etc.  The need for a behaviorist implies that the dog is having a more severe problem, such as separation anxiety, resource guarding, aggression, reactivity, shyness, or something else that requires behavior modification beyond the scope of normal training.  Many trainers are good at it, but the dog, for example, who is severely aggressive, with or without an organic cause, is usually beyond what most trainers wish to deal with.  Long term protocols for those things are often beyond what many average owners can commit to as well.
    My caveat to owners is, never believe anyone who tells you they can cure your dog.  Many times, the result is that the dog does learn to modify his/her behavior, which is good - and a sign that the behaviorist did know their stuff - but that is never a certainty, since owner compliance is a key component to the equation in most cases.  Also, euthanasia is always an owner decision - anyone who tells you have your aggressive or SA dog PTS is suspect IMO.  What a good trainer or behaviorist will do is to provide information on the management requirements, the liability the owner incurs, and the severity of the dog's problem.  Most of the time, they will try to paint you an accurate (sometimes brutally accurate) picture so that you can make an informed decision.  But, the decision is yours to make.  And, IMO, in those cases where the behaviorist believes the dog is a candidate for euthanasia, there is a duty to refer the client to a veterinary behaviorist for a psychopharmacological evaluation.
    I have seen dogs that were deemed hopeless live happy lives after Clomicalm.  Not a panacea, but worth exploring if you love the dog and are able to manage it until the appointment.
    I would not be hesitant to ask a behaviorist or a trainer where they got direct doghandling experience, and if they are familiar with your particular breed of dog.  That's important in the sense that, if you are complaining about hyperactivity, the person you hire should know, if they are dealing with a herding breed, for example, the difference between true hyperactivity and the simple need to be "busy" doing a job.  Some herders are quite intense, and drivey, but are not hyperactive.  If you own a Newfoundland or a St. Bernard, is the person aware of the time it takes for the command to exit your mouth, get to the dog's ear then brain, and make it to the hindmost part of the body?  You wait a long time between "Sit!" and the buns actually being on the floor, yet the dog is not being disobedient, it simply takes a long time for him to be able to react to what he has heard.  Conversely, most Border Collies have their buns on the floor in a half a millisecond LOL.
    • Puppy
    I am a behaviorist and I have a Masters in Applied Animal Behavior from Indiana University. In my personal opinion (no offense to anyone) you are not a "behaviorist" unless you have some kind of graduate degree in some kind of animal science.

     
    I Don't take Offense, Because I am not in search of a title.  I do think that's a pretty narrow minded view.  Bill Gates is not a college graduate in fact he dropped out. When I hear Bill Gates' name I do not say, that guys not really a buisness man, he has no degree. I say wow a man who took a different path. When I hear Jimi Hendrix play guitar, My first thought is what an incredible musician. Even though he never recieved formal training. It's not your fault Our society does not encourage free thinking. I am not an animal behaviorist, But I do think i have quite a good handle on dog behavior. For me my motivations are not even purely that I love dogs. I train them for sport. My dogs are refered to as HOT dogs in the sport. Handler Owner Trained Dogs. My goal is to be successful. I would love to win a world champioship. Extremeley hard in the sport I do. Because all the dogs have athleteic ability and the training is a test of the dogs doing the exericses correct, fast and strong. If I would compete at that level and win with a HOT dog. I would have to say that took a certain level of knowledge about understanding dog behavior.
    • Gold Top Dog
    A little off topic... but, I am currently "exploring" career fields. I though I wanted to be a wildlife biologist, but since reading a bit more into animal behavior, especially dog behavior, I have started to consider a career in animal behavior. Where do you start? For instance, I am going for my BA in biology; is this the correct route or should it be something else?
     
     
    I kind of also agree with Mic about needing a degree before you should realy call yourself a "behavioralist." It's not because I don't believe someone who doesn't have a degree doesn't understand behavioral aspects. BUT, when I hear "behavioralist" I think "professional." I equate it to being like a Psychologist, someone who has been to school and been tested for their understanding. I also agree with Anne in that someone fresh out of school might not really understand what they've been taught. But, then, perhaps there should be some kind of internship where someone fresh out of school or still in school could spend time watching, learning, and working with people who have a good deal of experience. Maybe they already do that?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Puma, you are NOT off topic at all.  This is exactly they same type of question that I wonder about.  Currently, (knock on wood) my dogs aren't out of control, I don't have any behavior problems that I don't currently handle, (please don't get the idea that my dogs are perfect, but you know what I mean) but I am always interested in learning more and better ways of doing things.
     
    So, if it is generally accepted that a behaviorist has a degree and should be able to offer insight into the actual behaviors of animals beyond just training to perform "jobs", then what are the certifications and learning routes for a trainer?
    • Gold Top Dog
    pumaward, you are doing fine to start with a degree in Biology.  [:)]
     
    One thing you must remember is that many of us started in the dog profession before there were many advanced degrees available.  The woman I work for is an excellent behaviorist, and has a degree in another discipline, but not in animal behavior.  She has been doing this for decades and is very highly respected.
    James makes a good point - knowledge in the field of dogs is gained over a span of years.  The fact that someone gained it without a formal degree is basically irrelevant to the client if they possess the same knowledge as the person with the degree.  But, certainly, more doors will open for the degreed professional than for the other, all other things being equal. 
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I do think that's a pretty narrow minded view.

     
    I agree that years of experience can teach you as much if not more than a graduate degree.  BUT, just like you can't call a vet tech a veterinarian, you can't call a trainer a behaviorist no matter how many years of experience.  There is a vet tech that works for us and she has been in the field for about 25 yrs.  I would venture to say that she can diagnose as well as our newbie vets, but that still doesn't make her a veterinarian.
     
    My point is that the term behaviorist is over used, and often used to mislead people. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    My favorite "me" thing to do is just go to the dog park or even an outdoor show without my dog and just watch other dogs interactions - especially after reading Turid Rugaas "On Talking Terms with Dog".  There is also a video of the book if you would rather watch then read. 
     
    It's fun to see how many of the behaviors you can observe and if you can foretell certain actions based on your reading.