Dog Community

attack was the final straw - may need to give him up

Posted : 4/24/2006 11:33:54 AM

I've posted on here before, but here's the awful situation as briefly as possible:

Eight months ago my wife and I adopted a rescued JRT/Beagle mix. We think he is about 4 years old. Our understanding is that he came out of an abusive situation.

He is very sweet and loving and extremely attached to us, but he has now biten 8 separate people (my wife and I several times each) badly and in very different situations. It's a true Jeckle and Hyde scenario. When he bites he is VICIOUS and in a completely different state. Afterwards he always looks extremely remorsefull. Here's the basic breakdown of the biting behaviours.

* Fear based biting: Usually he'll get startled by being touched when he's not expecting it. We've learned to be careful about this and always "let him know" when we're coming. We're also getting him used to being touched on his rump (where I presume he was repeatedly hit). We've made some progress in this area, but I have been bitten when attempting to move him when he's curled up on a couch or bed (and yes, I know he shouldn't really be in the bed).

*Extreme Resource Guarding: He gets so possesive of "prizes" that he picks up on his walks that he has growled and lurched repeatedly at us, breaking skin several times.

*Outright Attack: This is the one that concerns me most. My parents were taking care of him this weekend (they have a King Charles Spaniel our dog has always gotten along with). Over the course of 5 days he became increasingly protective of the house and displayed more and more jealousy and dominance. My Aunt pulled up to their house on Saturday, and as soon as my mother opened the door a crack, the dog ran for my aunt and just started attacking her. She was not seriously hurt, but when my mother attempted to intervene, he attacked her, biting her hand and arm badly several times. He had never attacked someone like this.

Our concern here is the unpredictability of the dog, and the fact that this "attack mode" is like a switch. It happens instantaniously, and when this switch is triggered the dog is very dangerous. We have considered anxiety medications (doggie Prozac etc.) but I have a feeling this trigger is not going to be affected by simply using drugs to make him calmer overall. Additionally, it doesn't seem to be a trainable behavior because it doesn't seem like something he's even aware of, and we certainly don't want to trigger this behavior anyway (especially if he's damaged from years of abuse).

We love him and we are heartbroken to give him up. He is a great dog 99% of the time, but that 1% is VERY scary and I'm concerned that the next time it will be a stranger or child getting hurt. I guess I'm just looking for any thoughts regarding anxiety disorders/medications or more specifically, if it sounds as though that's a viable solution. If giving him up is the safest thing, that's what we'll do, but I need to know that we've done everything we can do to try to "fix" this. Any thoughts are very much appreciated.

tashakota

Posted : 4/24/2006 11:41:47 AM

Giving him to someone else is not a good solution, IMHO. I don't know much about this or about the use of medications, but you can always try. If you truly feel that the only solution is to not have this dog anymore, the kindest thing you can do for him is to have the vet put him to sleep. I know this is hard and maybe harsh, but from the "nutshell" you have described, he would not be safe with anyone else either. It would not be right to give him to someone else without explaining the situation and even then, I can't imagine many people that would take it on except a rescue organization. And the one I "ran into" didn't deal with fear biting. Maybe JRT rescues are different.

But if the poor little guy does have emotional problems and medication doesn't work, then the best and safest thing for him is to let him join the rest of our dogs at the Rainbow Bridge. You can then rescue/adopt another poor doggie soul that needs a home in his memory.

forpaws

Posted : 4/24/2006 11:47:07 AM

Miles, it is never easy to deal with a dog with issues as this.
Have you consulted a behaviorist for some in put on this yet?
My concern is giving him up will not address his issues but only have him PTS. Since he cannot go to a home with kids for the obvious.
Have you had extensive screening done on this dog to determine there is no health issues that is underlying the problem?
Anxiety medications may help him. You wont know until you try them to exhaust all means of rehabbilitation with this fella.
I hope one of our behaviorists will see your post and provide you with more information than I can. I have had dogs that have been abused but have snapped out of it over months of reconditioning and training. With clicker training, NILIF and patience. Lots of the later.

miles101

Posted : 4/24/2006 11:50:38 AM

Thank you for your thoughts. Of course, the only way I will give him to another individual is if they have a full understanding of what they are getting and are confident that they are equipped to deal with this kind of thing. The idea of having him put to sleep is unthinkable. You're right, it might well be the right thing, but I know in my heart I couldn't bring myself to do that.

Kristin

Posted : 4/24/2006 11:55:39 AM

My family had a similar problem when I was 14. We had gotten a Rottie from what we were led to believe was a reputable breeder. We had gotten references and they had AKC documentation and everything. We were going to do some amature shows with him. At least that's what we had planned. We went on vacation about 6 months after getting the dog. The breeder we got him from said she'd look after him so we didnt have to put him in a kennel. While he was with her the father dog attacked our puppy which is very tramatizing for a dog. Then we come to find out that the father dog was bred with one of its female babies from a previous litter. So our dog was imbred another cause for our dog to have issues. Due to the imbreeding our dog had growth problems in his front legs and the one eventually bowed really bad and we had to have it fixed surgically. Which helped a bit. After all this the dog had a horrible temper. It got attached to my step father and wouldnt get close to anyone else. It hated women and children.It had bitten me on several occasions while trying to train it to be less agressive. During the day we'd tie him up in our fenced yard to a chain attached to a leather collar and some how the dog would manage to break the thick collar and dig under the fence and get out. I'd come home from school to find my neighbors telling me our dog was loose again. So I'd have to go find him. On a couple occasions friends were with me when I got home and our dog ran up to me and bit my friends. My one friend had to have her arm in a sling for like 2 weeks. When I was 14 my mom had a baby. During his christening party there were kids were playing ball. My step dad told them that the dog was mean and if the ball went in the fence dont go in to get it or he'll bite you. Well the one kid didnt listen and our dog bit him in the hand. The kid had to get 8 stitches and had an open puncture wound in his hand. That was our last straw. The next day we went to the vet and had him put down. We just couldn't deal with him anymore and we couldnt live with ourselves bringing such an aggressive dog to the humane society. It's very hard when you have to make a decision like that. I would recommend getting rid of the dog before he does something like bites a small child or bites someone who will sue you or press charges. It's hard but it sounds like it would be for the best.

schleide

Posted : 4/24/2006 12:24:42 PM

I am not a trainer and am not really sure what you can do in this situation, but the first few things I would do are: (i) start STRICT NILIF immediately, dog is off all furniture, dog is working for everything (if your dog is afraid, I think this will help him to see you as leader); (ii) consult with a certified behaviorist as soon as possible (hopefully someone will come on soon who can help you find a good one in your area) and (iii) muzzle your dog... If you are ok with risking being bitten yourself, that is one thing, but any time there is a possibility that your dog might come in contact with someone else, please please do not put him in a position where he might bite, get a basket muzzle through which your dog can still pant, drink and get treats (I have seen squeeze cheese recommended, by Anne I think, as a way to treat through a muzzle).

I hope some of the trainers and behaviorists will be along soon to give you more concrete advice. I am sorry you are having these problems... You are not alone in having to deal with a lot more issues than you bargained for and I hope that you will be able to find a way to deal with this that works for you.

ewin0210

Posted : 4/24/2006 12:26:40 PM

Friends of mine rescued a dog last year. It was a wonderful dog that fit in perfectly with their family. However as time went by the dog became agressive towards a particular type of person. 10yo boys with brown hair. She bit a couple of times breaking skin, but nothing major. However each time it was getting worse and worse. They could only deduce that this kind of person tormented her in her previous 3 years of life. The rescue would not take her back as it would become a liability to them. They researched to find another non children home for her. In thier research they found that even if they found another home for her they would still be liable to be sued if she bit again. They decided that the most humane thing they could do was to put her down. You may want to check with your state laws and make sure that this isn't true for where you live as well. Because it would certainly be better to keep him and have complete control rather than placing him elsewhere and not. Otherwise putting him to sleep really may be the best thing for him. Its unfortunate to ever get to this point and I'm truly sorry for all your going through. My thoughts and prayers are with you!
Emily

spiritdogs

Posted : 4/24/2006 7:33:42 PM

miles, you cannot give the problem to someone else. And, with all the well behaved non-aggressive dogs dying in shelters every day, that would be immoral, IMO. You must face the fact that this dog should either stay with you or be PTS. Better to die in your loving arms than be subjected to what might happen if he went to another home and managed to maim someone...
First, any time you are dealing with aggression this severe, you should have the dog checked out medically, then seek help from a behaviorist. [linkhttp://www.iaabc.com]www.iaabc.com[/link]

Mic

Posted : 4/25/2006 7:12:46 AM

Hey Anne, I tested that link and just got a bunch of pop ups. Any one else having trouble with it?

forpaws

Posted : 4/25/2006 7:16:14 AM

Mic, same with me. I also just got a page full of add's on top of the pop ups too. Just thought I'd let you know you were not alone. lol

Diane Gilby

Posted : 4/25/2006 10:53:42 AM

This is a very sad situation, but from what I have read, this poor pup doesn't have much of a chance at being rehab'd. He would never IMHO be trustworth and sooner or later something terrible will happen. The most humane and ethical thing to do is put him to sleep.

You have my sincere sympathy - this is a terrible choice to make - but a responsible one.

dianeg
(instructor)

probe1957

Posted : 4/25/2006 11:42:44 AM

I agree with those who think the dog should be put down. He has bitten eight times. That's enough. I know it is a painful decision, but I really do think it is the best one for your dog. I am truly sorry.

Christi

Posted : 4/26/2006 8:24:55 AM

The obedience trainer I go to also rehabs dogs. He got a call from his friend in CA who works in GSD rescue, asking him to take a 3 year old male that had bitten 3 or 4 times (I can't remember but they were bad bites) and had been ordered by the state to be pts, unless he could be rehabbed by a professional. Trainer took the dog on the condition that it would never be returned or rehomed (his terms) and over the last year has done extremely strict NILIF with him, among other things, and does not allow this dog to approach anyone without his explicit permission. This dog basically has to ask to breathe, if you know what I mean. I think I remember at one point he said the dog was not even permitted to meet his wife for the first few months. The dog will never be trustworthy but is making so much progress under his guidance. This is an extreme case, like yours, and this guy is a pro. I can't imagine how you'll be able to work through these issues without professional help. Bless you for trying to make a difference by adopting a dog in need but there is only so much you can do. As others have said, if you choose to keep the dog and not pts, you have a responsibility to never expose this dog to anyone it can hurt. Good luck to you.

mudpuppy

Posted : 4/26/2006 9:04:01 AM

Additionally, it doesn't seem to be a trainable behavior because it doesn't seem like something he's even aware of, and we certainly don't want to trigger this behavior anyway

it's hard to say without seeing him, but your descriptions of his biting don't sound like unprovoked "out of the blue" attacks. It sounds like he's a little tyrant who has learned he can get whatever he wants by sudden violence. He needs to be very firmly but non-confrontationally taught some new rules. You are correct in that you do not want to trigger this behavior; no need to! go get Ruff Love by Susan Garrett and follow her NILIF program. Go get Mine! by Donaldson to address his resource guarding issues.
Avoid his triggers-- don't touch him suddenly. don't let him get hold of "treasures" on walks. Use technology (a shut door?) to keep him from getting up on the bed.

What do you feed him? certain foods can cause certain dogs to be hyperactive and unable to control themselves. For example, I had a horrible experience with some Mighty Dog I was given once. I could not believe the change in all of the dog's personalities after feeding one meal of this so-called food. It was like I'd fed them powerful psychotropic drugs.