Dog bite

I think it is sad that lady and possibly the dog will suffer as a result of this.

IF I hear anyone coming up behind us I will turn to check and move way WAY over.  Then I take out my baggie of hot dog treats and keep the pups busy while the person passes.

Recently we were out on a leash free path, and a group of high school ROTC kids were doing training - they had lots of adult chaperones.  The path is a loop.   Anyway, they were running the path in groups of 10 to 15.  I asked them - well HOLLERED the first time - to please walk when passing us. I am pleased that each troop leader would spot us, call the troop to a walk, single file past us, back to double column, and run again.  FOUR groups and they past us multiple times!  When I reached the big check in area I mentioned this to one group of adults, they smiled and seemed pleased that each troop leader had done this. 

By having them walk, I did not have to keep leashing my pups, just getting the treats out and stepping off the path was enough.

The burden really is on the dog walker / owner, the other party, it seems, can do just about anything!  Grrr

 

 

 

 That was really nice of the ROTC group! I'm impressed. The leaders probably had no problem with it as it probably turned out to be interval training for the troops hehe.

The burden is always on the dog owner. That's just the way it is and it's one of the risks you take when you own a dog. I don't really think it should be any other way. Other people shouldn't be responsible for the actions your dog decides to take. 

I have a friend that is going through somewhat a similar situation in that when her dog is startled by someone walking by it will snap. Some people try to excuse the behavior away by blaming the person walking by (the dog sensed something, the dog doesn't like that person, it was startled or whatever). To me those are all valid points but that is all also beside the point.  the snapping response is not an appropriate behavior for a dog out in public. The owner needs to take steps to train the dog to not respond in that way and counter condition it for when it is startled. Life happens and the dog needs a different response to the unexpected. That's the bottom line.

With Abbie and her leash reactivity, I can place blame on other dogs and their owners for when Abbie flips out. However, it is my responsibility at the end of the day to train her to 1) trust me to handle the situation and 2) have an alternate response / default behavior.

Jewlieee

The burden is always on the dog owner. That's just the way it is and it's one of the risks you take when you own a dog. I don't really think it should be any other way. Other people shouldn't be responsible for the actions your dog decides to take. 

 

You took the words right out of my mouth.  A person jogging, biking or whatever should be able to assume that a dog out and about with it's owner won't attack them.  It would be nice if people coming up from behind said something to the people they're passing to avoid surprises and collisions, whether there are dogs involved or not. I totally agree that the burden is on the dog owner to be aware of potential dangers and to keep their dog safe and the public safe.

Belle got away from me at the park a few years back and took off after two boys on bikes who zoomed past us from behind.  She had absolutely no bad intentions (lots of prey/chase drive with her) but what if one of them had fallen from their bike and been hurt?  It would have been my fault 100%.  The boys stopped when they saw us chasing Belle and she happily enjoyed their petting while we huffed and puffed our way to them.  I know my dog and I shouldn't have let her get loose.  No excuses only another lesson for me to always expect the unexpected.

As others have said, the burden really is on the dog owner. Granted, this woman's dog may have never had a problem before, so this was just a freak kind of thing but it's still always going to fall back to the dog owner.

I try to get out of the way when joggers or bikers are passing by but that's because Shane thinks everyone should stop and say "hi", so he might get in their way. He always seems so offended when they just pass by and don't stop ;)

We love to walk along a stretch of the river that runs through town.  It's a very popular area for bikers and joggers and people walking/jogging with their dogs.  It's not very wide and I get annoyed when people are taking up the entire width of the paved path.  You can't get off the path in many places to go around without either getting in the water or getting into the landscaping.  We walk single file and if we have a dog or dogs we keep them on the side away from anyone passing us.  It seems like common sense but apparently it's not since we see so many people taking up the entire path.

I don't know why everyone doesn't stop to pet Shane. :)

I agree that the burden is on the dog owner to do what's needed to avoid any problems.  I'm extra sensitive to this now that we have a pitbull-mix, but I was also aware of it when we had Tonka, because he was so huge (we didn't have to worry about reactivity, but he could easily knock someone over and hurt them by accident).  I don't think Ruby will ever be totally reliable to react calmly to people/pets we encounter on walks, so my guard is up at all times.  She's better than she was when we first adopted her, but her play and prey drives are so pronounced, that she'll always be over-excitable, I think.

I will say it makes me mad when you try to be proactive, but the other person doesn't do their part to help the situation, too.  A good friend of ours just had this frustrating problem the other day.  Her dog gets very worked up if bicyclists pass when they walk him (especially if it's kids and they're loud, fast, or going in erratic directions, etc.).  She was in her neighborhood and saw 3 boys ahead on bikes, circling in and out of their driveway.  She called out (nicely) to ask if they would mind just standing still for a couple minutes as she passed (she was already on the opposite side of the street, but they were coming way out into the street, too).  One of them said something wise to her, and they all gave her nasty looks.  Then a woman appeared from the house or garage or somewhere and started yelling at my friend, saying not to tell her kids what to do, they have a right to be playing there, it's not their problem if she can't control her dog, blah blah blah.  

My friend was so stunned that she just hustled past and ignored the woman, but she fumed about it for hours.  In fact, she called me when she got home to tell me.  Of course, we thought of things she might have said had she thought of   it at the time.  She even considered leaving a note on her door or something.  But instead she just made a point to never walk by that house again!

JackieG

I don't know why everyone doesn't stop to pet Shane. :)

I know! Many do giggle at him as they walk by and he stops and turns to watch them go and then stares for the longest time. I've learned that it's easier to just wait until he realizes they're not coming back vs. trying to nudge him along. If they pass going the same direction as us, it actually gets him a little motivated to giddy-up :)

I agree 100% that the burden is always on the dog owner. You guys are giving examples of walking on walking/riding paths or areas in the woods or such...not sure but to me that might make a difference...you are already taking your dogs where you know others will most likely be...kids, bikes, walker...etc. And you are on guard as you should be. I take Gibby almost every single day for a 30 minute walk..as I did Bubblegum and often Oliver before her. We walk on a sidewalk that has a tree lawn, usually grass on other side, the street ( which is NOT a busy street at all ) and then more grass and sidewalk on the other side of the street. We often see bikes, other walkers and even a jogger or runner here or there...we see them down the street, across the street....up the street...............................and we can prepare our dog if they will be coming by us. I do. However................I am talking about a jogger that might be coming up behind you and they are quiet as they have the rubber shoes... When it happened to me it scared the hell out of me...I did not expect it and I jumped. I think a little common courtesy to NOT run up behind a person...whether they have a dog or not would be the thing to do. If they come towards me and I see them, I get out of their way, it seems to me they could grant us a little courtesy coming from behind. Yes its my responsibility to control my dog but if I don't know they are there, its hard to do...and what kind of person would even want to get that close to a dog that they don't know? Gibby is also looking to get petted by everyone...so he could likely jump on them because he is happy to see them..which is no better either. Again I don't know the story of that lady with the 3 dogs... big or little dogs, were they aggressive dogs, or did she not have any idea this dog might bite, where exactly this happened....but I do feel sorry for her...she had her dogs on a leash... perhaps walking 3 dogs was hard for her, but we have more people in our neighborhood complaining about people letting their dogs run unleashed, I say at least she was walking her dogs on leashes. She and her dog will pay for this...I am always sorry for nice people and a nice dog that makes a mistake.

Oh..I also wanted to say that it GREAT TRAINING for the ROTC group to do what they did...

Dyan, I agree with you about it being common courtesy for a runner, jogger or biker to give a person ahead of them a "behind you" warning but sadly many people don't and whether it's fair or not is beside the point, in my opinion.  Whether it's a neighborhood street or a public park or pathway, everyone should feel free to use these places without being attacked by a dog. 

Not everyone is a dog person and aren't aware that they might startle a dog.  They shouldn't be bitten or knocked down because they didn't think of that possibility. I think we who love dogs sometimes forget that not everyone is thinking about what a dog might do in a particular situation.

 I too feel sorry for the woman involved and her dog but if I had to assign blame in this case it would have to fall on the woman.  Any one of us could be in her shoes at one time or another.  It's good to discuss it because it helps keep us vigilant.

I agree, Dyan, about people coming from behind --- I've been startled even when I'm walking without Ruby.  Calling out to those ahead of you is the right thing to do, but like Jackie said, many people don't think to do it.

Last weekend we visited some friends in a resort area in central Oregon.  It's a very dog friendly place with tons of jogging/walking/biking trails through wooded and meadowed areas.  Because it's a busy place (especially on a holiday weekend), we had to share paths with lots of people and dogs.  I noticed that EVERYONE who came up behind us gave some kind of warning -- either a bicycle bell or calling out "On your left!" or something like that.  It was great because we had time to dash off the path to let people pass so the dogs stayed calmer and no one got hurt. 

I wonder if everyone was so good about doing that because it's a huge recreational area where people are encountering each other all over the resort.  People definitely behave differently than in the average park or trail in town here.

dyan

I think a little common courtesy to NOT run up behind a person...whether they have a dog or not would be the thing to do. If they come towards me and I see them, I get out of their way, it seems to me they could grant us a little courtesy coming from behind

Dyan -- the pivotal word in your post is actually "courtesy" -- and I may be something of a dinosaur but that is really a touchy subject for me because there is NO such thing as "common courtesy" any more really -- why call it "common" when it's so danged UN-common.

The byword now is "attitude is everything" and so if I can walk out in front of your car, or stride/run past you without a thought or a glance and convince you to give way then I win!

That said? It's meaningless. You can't count on "courtesy" -- and when you have a dog with you (and I care not if it is one or multiples) then YOU had better be capable of handling that/those dog(s) all the way because that's the ONLY way you can protect your own ... and flatly, that is our job.

Sure -- you have 3 dogs on leashes it is hard -- whether they are all sweetness and light or reactive. BUT -- it is the responsibility of the owner to **make sure** what they are doing is safe because in the laws of most any state/local area a dog essentially equates to a "weapon" and the dog/owner will get the blame every single time.

So ... as an owner, when we take *on* more than one dog -- or a larger dog, or a reactive dog or whatever -- we have to make darned sure that WE -- the human -- are equal to the task and have 100% control. If you can't totally, and completely reliably walk *three* dogs at once on leash, then to be honest you'd better go on 3 walks then, 1 per dog. If you know you can't possibly walk all three of those dogs and see to their physical needs then shame on that person for taking on what they can't possibly handle.

I told David 9 years ago when we were looking for a therapy dog then -- my criteria had to be that the dog had to be small enough for me to be able to carry that dog DOWN 3 steps to get that dog out of pee if it were too sick to walk. with my physical limitations -- 30 pounds is a max. Even now that we've built a ramp and have various wagons I need to be able to pick the dog up and put it IN the wagon to get it out. **MY** responsibility.

If you have a reactive dog, it's your responsibility to contain that dog -- and not only to contain it but to be aware of it's surroundings -- so that a child doesn't come zooming up behind you to get bitten or the rude jogger. Like Sandie prepares with bits of hot dog and she has a PLAN for when her "flock of fluffs" are in an iffy situation -- we all need to take stock of our situations and make sure you and the dog will survive the situation without something awful happening.

Yes, unless you are totally aware of your circumstances, someone *can* come up behind you and scare you ... that may come under "rude" but it also comes under "I need to be focused when I'm out alone with the dog so no one can take advantage of us, or scare me to the point that Gibby charges them!" -- someone may be rude, but it is first of all incumbent on me to be 100% aware of my own surroundings to make sure *I* am safe.

Now -- does that make the jogger less rude? No. But the majority of the world tends to be pretty rude. Because everyone is out for themselves.

At the same time though - it is NOT something the average non-dog person knows .... that dogs are predatory animals and running away isn't smart. To us it's a no-brainer but if people actually understood how to lessen their chances of being bitten, there would be less bites. But at the same time if people knew THAT they'd probably know it's stupid to let your dogs run wild off leash (and not caring IF the dogs get impounded or hurt someone), like it is dumb to feed live gators in someone's back yard, it's stupid to feed the bears or tease them, it's stupid to go to a bar and get drunk and go "home" with someone you just met. A lot of things people do unthinkingly are DUMB -- but people are just like that and unfortunately you can't legislate intelligence.

Yeah -- that's all "common sense" - and at the risk of repeating myself why do they call it "common" when it's so UN-common?

But it still makes me angry that this runner was rude..and beyond rude, stupid. I think most of us, if not all.....were raised to know that dogs bite and be careful around them..... and coming within leash distance of them when its totally unnecessary because you can go around them far enough to not be close.... is only right thing to do. I bet the runner learned a lesson that day. But the poor dog and owner is probably in trouble. For Gibby and me...not too much trouble, as Gibby is so aware of every single thing that is coming, going...different. In our walking area that we do everyday...there is a guy that puts up BBQ stand on the main street....its several hundred feet away.....but yesterday Gibby stopped dead on our walk because the guy added big red flag or banner to his stand and we had to stand and look at it for several minutes. LOL. Buy the time we got closer to it though, Gibby had forgotten totally about it. But he would have spotted the guy coming behind from way far away because that is him.

Makes me angry too Dyan, if that is the way it truly went down. It is sad when people who are coming up behind someone don't give them a heads up. When we are the one with the dogs though, especially if it is a dog that has the potential to jump at and/or bite someone, we have to realize there are those ignorant people out there. It is my responsibility to protect my dogs, as well as the people, from harm. I have, well actually, both of my dogs have the potential to bite someone, one more than the other, and I am always on alert to that. They were both rescues and that is why I have them, as I knew, especially with the one, that there would be few people who would know how to deal with him. I do dog agility and they have traveled across that country with us and I'm always aware of my surroundings. And it still makes me angry when I see a dog being blamed, when it is not the dogs fault. I think I have heard of cases though, where they did not put the blame on the dog, but we can't bank on that happening.