Bark! Bark! Bark!....Help!!!

TTouch can be INCREDIBLE -- particularly on a bigger dog (Clouded Leopard absolutely rocks for this).  It's tougher on a small dog.

But let's not let Mr. Congeniality meet Ms. Social Activity (a/k/a Stinkerbell *grin*) -- she doesn't bark  but oh ... my ... gosh ... she gets SO ramped up when she sees PEEPULS!!!  You'd think she was gonna come out of her skin with joy!  I have to be *very* careful not to let her get ramped up.

I hate to suggest chemical help but it honestly DOES help -- and that's -Heels "Calming".  It will take Tink from the whirling in circles mega excitement to "I'd better lay down on my belly so I don't jump up" phase -- i.e., it helps calm down the body so the brain can engage.  (It's a homeopathic so it's not going to clash with ANY of his medicine, which is a plus for Shane).

  Everyone else is better at the books than I am, but I do heartily recommend the T Touch -- it really is incredible how well it can work, and that one touch in particular has been one of my favorites for years.

Thanks Callie. Is Heels different than Rescue Remedy?

cakana

The only way I could keep him quiet was to keep walking with him. As long as we were moving,

Were you moving away from the people and dogs?   You might try walking away from everyone until he stops barking, then turn around and walk back toward all the excitement.  As soon as he starts to get excited or bark, turn around and walk away.  It will probably take quite a few repetitions before he gets the idea that barking gets him taken away from what he wants and calmer, quiet behavior gets him closer.  You might have calves of steel before you get him close enough to work on the excitement barking when he's being petted but the same protocol for that scenario. If he's too ramped up when people are petting him or if he barks because no one is paying him any attention, walk away.

Over and over and over and over and over.  The hardest part of accomplishing this is that it does take many many repetitions for the dog to accept that he's not going to get what he wants until he's calmer.  If people say they don't mind tell them that you do mind and that he can't be petted when he's excited or barking.  This is hard because people won't understand especially with a beautiful dog like Shane since I'd probably be fawning over him too. lol  It's also sure to curtail your ability to socialize at these events since you'll have to excuse yourself the second he starts to bark or get excited.  The more places you can do this the better.  Shopping malls, walking around outside at work, etc. 

 It's not much fun but if he's never rewarded for barking or getting too excited, he'll eventually learn how to get what he wants.  :)

Didn't Sophia Yin have some videos showing this?  Maybe it was Jean Donaldson or kikopup's youtube channel. 

Far different -- RR is a "flower essence" -- it works well on some dogs/people, and not on others at all (and it never works much for me except for a couple of dogs)

 Heel's stuff is homeopathics -- I've had super good luck with it and it's true help for you is that it isn't a drug.  It won't clash with any of his meds.  It doesn't 'medicate' the body -- it simply nudges the body to do what it should.  done right it's incredibly powerful medicine and -Heel is a superior quality company.

"Calming" would work well for him and you could repeat it several times a day (it's not habit-forming).  IF he's sleepy it will let him sleep.  But it won't zone him out.  Similar to the effects of valerian, but that's an herb and with all the meds Shane is on you really don't want to overload that liver because it's got to process all the heart meds. 

You can get it at Drugstore.com (I've got extra -- I can send you one and save you a ton on shipping and then if you like it you can just send me one when you find it -- EZ).

Mine all think "pathics" rock -- they are sweet (they need to absorb in the mouth) -- I literally hang onto a tablet and they nibble it out of my fingers.  That makes it 'last' a second or two longer in the mouth which is where it absorbs.  When the pug comes to bed at 2 a.m. ready to zoom in circles and PLAY PLAY PLAY one Calming settles her right down to zzzzzz's in about a minute. 

 Some complain that "testing" doesn't conclude that it always works on humans, and then there is talk about "placebos" -- except a dog doesn't "do" placebos.  When you hand a dog something they don't think "oh ... Mom's giving me a pill -- THIS will make me feel better!" -- no -- they think "YUM -- SWEET!" and that's about it.  other than "Can I have one too??"

If it works -- it works!  And trust me - it DOES work.  Bugsy took Traumeel for a lot of his pain after his surgery (and Karen still uses it) -- made by the same company.

JackieG

Were you moving away from the people and dogs?   You might try walking away from everyone until he stops barking, then turn around and walk back toward all the excitement.

Yes and as soon as I got back close to the crowd and he started again, I walked some more. I had my Buddy System leash on, so I just acted like "oops, here we go" and started walking. I don't think walking away was a negative to him though. The rescue has more doggie scents than a dog park, so he was happy to sniff his heart out. I did think there were times when he was doing better and then someone came over, fawned over him and he got amped up and barked as they walked away and then just wouldn't stop until we walked again. The trainer suggested using the LAT method but I feel like I was doing that and it only worked while he was getting treats but I couldn't do that rapidly/consistently for over an hour. I agree that this is something I probably need to just keep working on in the right settings.

Callie - If you wouldn't mind sending some, I'd be eternally grateful.

Jewlieee

Here's a different thought - how about working on the relaxation protocol? Start at home where its boring and work up to you standing around outside and he gets bored. That would teach him that sitting or lying quietly while you do stuff gets him treats. That barking tells me that he gets over excited easily and he needs to learn how to not get over excited to the point of barking like a mad dog.

 

Abbie is a big excitement vocalizer and since we have been doing the relaxation stuff, her barking will shut off when I put her in her relaxation position (which for her is a down)

I think you're right Julie and I was trying that but I think it was too much/too soon and without enough practice. I was just watching some kikopup videos (love those!) and she showed the very thing you and Jackie are describing. Once again, I've become frustrated with myself and Shane over something we just haven't spent enough time working on. I also realized that in general, I haven't been working on any training with him lately and I think that needs to be consistent and forever, so I'll get busy with that again.

The hardest part about doing the walk away protocol and not letting him get any attention when he's excited is that if you're not always consistent in not letting him be rewarded, you get into the intermittent reinforcement.  Been there done that many times myself and it sets you back to square one.

The relaxation method worked well with Rex (he's a much easier dog in many ways) but Belle is much harder and I can't say I've done enough with her to completely overcome her excited behavior around other dogs. I don't think she'll ever be a dog who is relaxed and calm in arousing situations but she is much better than she used to be.  It does help if I remain focused and calm though that's not easy when you've got a barking/pulling dog at the end of the leash.  Working in less exciting surroundings with fewer people/dogs helps a lot. 

Cathy, the best way I know to get around the problem of people who unintentionally undermine your efforts is to work with people who do understand what you're doing and avoid interactions with those who don't.  Yeah, not easy.  It sounds impossible but if you control the environment by setting up scenarios, with people who will cooperate by not giving him any attention until he's sitting nicely, you're training will go much faster.  I don't have a problem telling anyone who approaches one of my dogs (if I'm training in public) to please ignore the dog.  I can be pretty stern about it since most people are well meaning but clueless about dog training.  Getting friends to help is the best way because you can get in lots of repetitions of the dog being ignored until calm if the people approaching know exactly what to do.

Yes, I'd gently pull him away when he's jumping up on people and walk away.  I wouldn't correct him in any way except for removing him from the situation. You can say over your shoulder "we'll come back if you will ignore him completely unless I tell you to give him some calm attention". I've had some strangers actually get into helping me train a dog to sit calmly when I explained why it was important. 

Yes, you're absolutely right. I did manage to get my coworkers that come to the office frequently to help with the training and Shane is great with them. It really was the worst at the rescue last weekend and I didn't handle it well. I need to get more serious about it. Maybe I need one of those "in training" vests for myself

Cathy, keeping your goal in mind is the key but it's not always possible to be forever in training mode, even though that's how the top trainers get their dogs to behave so well. That said, even the top trainers and behaviorists tell stories on themselves about their own training failures. I've been to quite a few seminars presented by top retriever trainers and behaviorists and watched them work, hands on, with dogs.  They make mistakes too and the really good ones use those mistakes to help their students understand that working with dogs isn't like working on some inanimate object.  The best trainers have learned to be hyper observant of the dogs they're working with and to recognize when they themselves were at fault in the training.  When I was competing in the retriever world I got a chance to watch the top pros handle their dogs.  The best ones never took their eyes or attention off the dog and they instantly knew when they had made a handler mistake and filed it away in their memory so they could work on their skills.

 Have you read Yin describe her JRT, Jonesy, as the $300,000.00 dollar dog?  That's how much time and effort she put into training him.  She may have been exaggerating the cost, but maybe not, and the point is it took her a lot of time and effort.  He was going to be euthed for his aggression.  Most of us don't have her huge skills/knowledge or the resources (training assistants.etc.) and her vast experience and the constant dedication toward a goal. 

It's also important to remember that most of us will never achieve perfection when trying to countercondition unwanted behavior.  Dogs are born with certain personalities, genetic traits and previously reinforced behaviors that limit how far we can take them toward some goals.  To a dog barking is normal behavior.  Whether it's alert barking or attention seeking barking.  Dogs don't get that it's not always something we as humans enjoy.  lol  

4HAND

Simplistic I know but how about giving him a stuffie to hold in his mouth?The incompatible behavior won't fix the excitement but still worth a try. Tena

That is worth trying. :)

It doesn't work with all dogs especially when they're super excited. My JRT Twister wouldn't have taken anything in his mouth when he was barking with excitement and anticipation.  If you've ever been to a JRT event, the barking is so loud you can't hear yourself talk. lol To expand on excitement barking and how it's often reinforced by the owner/handler, dogs at retriever field trials and hunt tests are not supposed to bark when they're waiting for the birds to be thrown.  A dog can be eliminated for excessive barking because in a true hunting scenario you don't want a dog barking it's head off.  The only way to not reward the dog for barking is to take the dog off the starting line if it barks.  Barking means no birds.  It takes a dedicated trainer to remove themselves from the competition and recieve no score, in order to train the dog not to bark.  Some judges are more lenient than others but I've seen dogs failed for this when they have awesome retrieving skills otherwise.