Adult dog developed new fears while in training

ColleenC

...Can anyone think of anything that would cause this drastic personality change?

It sounds like something traumatized him at the trainers.  My gut tells me it was the training methods. 

ColleenC

It has been a long time since I have posted here, but I know I can get some good answers here!  So here it goes....a friend of mine came to me with a young adult hound mix named Buster.  She adopted him from a shelter where he received daily socialization and was a well adjusted, happy dog.  He got along with other dogs and enjoyed attention from new people and was not a fearful dog at all.  He did not react to loud noises, sudden movements, or rough handling.  She evaluated his personality quite well when she adopted him.

A little later, my friend sent him to a 10 week board & train type facility where he was supposed to be taught basic obedience skills.  He had daily interaction with other dogs and people while here.  He was kept inside with the trainers and crate trained as well.  When she picked him up from training, she expected a bit of an adjustment period.  However, her dog has become extremely fearful.  He was not fearful at all before and she could walk him on a leash aside from his eager pulling.  Now, he is scared of everything.  He no longer goes up to strangers happily, he saw a flag and a water tower and almost pulled her off of her feet twice.  He constantly is pacing trying to figure out how to get away.

This dog is not a puppy, probably around 2 years old.  He has been checked by a vet and is healthy.  Can anyone think of anything that would cause this drastic personality change?

What a sad sad story. 

In honesty there is NO WAY I would ever send a dog away for training, supposedly to come back to me magically obedient.  It's usually every bit as much the human who needs the training as the dog.  And sending a dog "away" for training invites aversive, very very harsh training (because they can do ANYTHING they want to that dog when no one is looking to get the results they want).

When they picked the dog up the dog probably "acted obedient" -- but when you get that dog back out into the normal world, scenarios they may have used in that training 'camp' likely will trigger the dog to remember being punished right after "that" happened.   

It's very likely harsh aversive methods were used to train this dog at the "obedience training" and it sounds like it was a pretty soft (malleable, easy to train) dog to begin with.  In essence the dog was damaged in this "camp" type training.

What a sad sad thing -- they now must get VERY personally involved and desensitize the dog beyond all the abuse that was called "training".  There are others on here far far better at training than I am, but my heart breaks for this poor dog.   I hope these folks are willing to help undo the damage done to this dog in the name of "training".

I forgot to add.  During visits to the facility, the dog acted happy and well behaved.  As soon as he was removed, he started panicking at every moving object.  This was not normal for him before at all.

As a trainer, I have my own opinion on the situation, but I was also wanting to get some outside opinion.

 What type of dog is it? How long has she had the dog? How long has this fear behavior been going on? If it is a larger breed, it could be going through a fear period. 2 is sort of on the old side for that but anything is possible. A vet check to check out hearing and eye sight might be a good idea.

Regardless of the why, it sounds like some confidence building is in order. Nosework games, agility, free shaping, and just plain old socialization work to the environment and strangers.

One of the things I agree with the "Dog Whisperer" about is that you train the human to work with the dog. Lots of hunting dogs are sent to professional trainers for finishing work, but I would really want to see what the pro does before I let him handle my dog. Some, being under time constraints and charging good amounts for the service, will use "pressure" to get what they want. You define "pressure".

ColleenC

During visits to the facility, the dog acted happy and well behaved.

This would have been subjective observation on the owner's part and it's quite common to see a dog behaving comfortably in a setting that it's adjusted to, despite any possible aversive training methods going on.  I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that aversives were used on the dog but it's possible.  Did the owner ever observe any training sessions during the ten week period?  Stop in unannounced to observe the trainers with other dogs? 

I trained dogs that were boarded at my brother's gun dog training kennel.  It's not always a bad thing but it can be depending on the trainers and their methods.  We encouraged people to come out anytime and watch in fact we begged owners to get and stay involved in the process.  We also encouraged people to come and participate with training while their dog was there as it's not about training the dog so much as it is training the owner to carry on the training after the dog goes home with the basics.

I thought about a possible fear period reaction too.  I also agree with doing some confidence building.  I'd ask the trainers if anything happened during the stay that might have resulted in a fearful reaction to moving objects.  If the owner isn't confrontational she might get some insight but as Julie said, it's not relevant at this point and counter conditioning and desensitization along with confidence building is how I'd start.

micksmom

It sounds like something traumatized him at the trainers.  My gut tells me it was the training methods. 

This is exactly my thought.  Board and trains are unfortunately known for rather harsh training methods.  I'm sure there are a handful of good ones out there but I don't trust them at all.

 Could you, perhaps go back and talk to the place the dog was taken about what kind of training took place?  Or perhaps if you share the name of the place some people might know more about them.  I suspect that they traumatized the poor dog with some very harsh "training."

I agree it sounds like something traumatized him at the training facility. Personally I never let my dog out of my sight let alone allow someone else to interact with my dog out of my sight...but anywho...

Another facet to consider; I work in the field of human behavior; so on the subject of trauma - post traumatic stress (which is now being discussed as a phenomenon in war dogs) generally results from a combination of environment (trauma) and genetic vulnerability (this explains why 2 people can be exposed to the exact same trauma and one will develop PTSD and the other won't). So my point is, I agree something bad happened, or at least something that the dog perceived as bad...but there is also likely some genetic vulnerability at play as well...just because the owners didn't previously observe it, doesn't mean it wasn't there.

I have a genetically fearful dog. Nothing "traumatic" ever happened to her in her entire life. Her fear first became evident @ age 1 and was set off by observing fireworks for about 1 minute. For a long time I kicked myself for allowing that to happen, while at the same time rationalizing that my other dog saw fireworks all the time and could totally care less. When I exposed her to the fireworks, it was actually intentional as part of an effort to socialize her.

She is now 6 and has on and off fear issues that come (when something sets it off; and by something it can be something completely benign that she perceives as fearful) and go. She has developed a sound phobia...to certain sounds, but only when she is in a certain mood; generally always thunder/lightening phobic though.

A few times when I went to hook her leash up, my pocketbook slid off my arm towards her face and she sometimes has an aversion to being on my left side (side pocketbook was on) and to things coming directly towards her face (even if it's a hand with a treat in it).

When she's in fear mode you would swear someone beat and tortured the dog (I even at a rally class had a trainer ask me if someone were hitting her. Which was so insulting I wanted to hit the trainer because we don't even use corrections outside of "No" and a motivational leash pop to get her attention when she is deciding to tell another dog where to get off). In the class it was a combination of being outside with sun and shadow and having the clicker on my left hand dangling towards her face (all the little things you don't immediately notice, or at least I didn't); resulted in her shying away from my left side like I was about to haul off and belt her. Obviously I can't blame the trainer for asking, because I knew what it looked like;  but in reality the dog is the most gently treated, pampered dog in the history of the world.

Sorry I got so long winded; what I should have just said is: genetically vulnerable dog had a bad experience is my opinion.

Puzzling....I guess I would just give the dog time to re-adjust and ask them not to try to over-analyze the situation right now.  Work on some very basic stuff in environments where the dog is already comfortable and keep it at that for a few weeks, then see how he's doing.

I had sort of a similar experience with Coke.  I never sent him away, but after 4 years of being a really happy dog not phased by anything, he almost overnight developed a fear of thunder and fireworks.  I cannot recall any experience where the noise was paired with some sort of trauma or bad experience, he just spontaneously became afraid of something that never bothered him before.  Luckily he's not all that bad, he doesn't howl or try to destroy the house or anything like that, he just paces around and sometimes shakes if it's really loud and once the storm or fireworks are done he goes back to normal within a few minutes.

 10 weeks is an awfully long time for a board-and-train arrangement - why did she do that?  Did the owner observe training sessions?  I would presume this arrangement came with follow up lessons for the owner, so I would bring the dog back to the facility to see exactly how it was trained, and what they think of this dog's behavior and what their recommended plan of action is.  I would not presume anything until I got this feedback.  She should bring YOU with her, as a trainer who can evaluate the trainer's methods and timing and explanation of behavior, etc.  You can always walk out if you think something is seriously wrong.

Ok, I had to change some of the original details to get an unbiased opinion, but those details do not affect this situation at all.  Basically, this dog should have been trained using 100% positive reinforcment for the past ten weeks.  During the training, he was not kenneled.  He lived with the trainer and was only crated at night, just as in the household environment.

This isn't the first dog that has developed random extreme fears while in this facility.  Mostly, I want to know, what is your opinion on an adult dog going from happy wanting to meet everyone and play everywhere to avoiding all new people, fearful of many things, and trying to escape every situation?  Personally, I don't think this is normal if the dog is being socialized and trained using positive reinforcment on a daily basis.  Developing a fear to thunder, a fear of the left side if a pocketbook is dropped, those I understand.  Developing a complete and total fear of everything in general...not normal.

Thoughts?

 Is he neutered or intact?  What age was he neutered?  So this dog went from being owned by someone (or not?), to being in a shelter, to being owned by someone else, who then boarded him for 2 1/2 months, and now has him back again and is confused by his change in behavior.  Sounds like he's had a pretty disorienting experience the first 24 months of his life.  (He is fully 2 years old?  Or do we know his exact age?)

I would go back to Julie's post - 2 years is when all kinds of changes take place, or settle in - both physically and behaviorally.  If the R+ trainer is a behaviorist, they should be able to explain what is going on.

ColleenC

Ok, I had to change some of the original details to get an unbiased opinion, but those details do not affect this situation at all.  Basically, this dog should have been trained using 100% positive reinforcment for the past ten weeks.  During the training, he was not kenneled.  He lived with the trainer and was only crated at night, just as in the household environment.

This isn't the first dog that has developed random extreme fears while in this facility.  Mostly, I want to know, what is your opinion on an adult dog going from happy wanting to meet everyone and play everywhere to avoiding all new people, fearful of many things, and trying to escape every situation?  Personally, I don't think this is normal if the dog is being socialized and trained using positive reinforcment on a daily basis.  Developing a fear to thunder, a fear of the left side if a pocketbook is dropped, those I understand.  Developing a complete and total fear of everything in general...not normal.

Thoughts?

Are we assuming that the training was done as described or are we reading between the lines? LOL 

If the training was done as described, then I would say it depends on the age of the dog and the genetics (breed, breeding, etc).  Temperament is genetic, but if the dog is not fully mature then how he acted previously may not really apply.  He might just be a very soft, skittish dog that will require a slower, more gentle approach to training (even if training was 100% positive, sending a dog away for just a few weeks is still a lot of changes for a softer dog to absorb).