7-8 mo old pup that plays rough (kpwlee)

The last foster pup I had was kind of like this.  He'd just get NUTS and start darting around hurling himself at all my dogs, leaping onto their backs and biting them.  This is where I really really appreciate my dogs, I can let *them* work this out.  Nikon is really good about this.  He doesn't like to play with other adult dogs other than my own but he's good with puppies up until a point, and then he will tell them off in a way that is very clear but also fair (he's not hurting the puppy or scarring it for life).  Coke is the same way, with people he's very submissive but with other dogs he has boundaries and will make them clear.  I'm not sure if this really helps at all though.  I've just been lucky that I have three dogs that are a big help weaning puppies off the "puppy license" and giving some continued learning in bite inhibition!  With that foster dog, he learned pretty quick that other dogs don't appreciate puppies jumping on their backs and biting them nonstop and he learned to actually play (tug on toys together, play in the pool, chase each other around without throwing themselves at each other).

When she gets over the top, remove her completely until she calms down. Do some redirection while on leash. Also interrupt the play randomly with call outs. It could be just over the top play or it could be something more. But it's a good idea to put control on it now.

 Yes we do remove her from the play but honestly she doesn't calm. She winds up having to go home :( I feel bad about it because she wants to play, they want her to play (not bite) and she is so wiggly and sweet with the humans.

I am not new to a completely over the top pup (or adult dog for that matter LOL) but Bugsy never was rough with other dogs - with him it was always a crate time thing when he got over excited. 

Lies Bugsy does very little correction, with other pups that were over the top bitey he would put his mouth around their neck and just hold them. And before anyone worries it is a completely open mouth with no intent to harm just to stop them from hurting him. He, in the past did this with her but not recently.  He never growls, or makes them yelp or other noise of being admonished. He has a ton of puppy experience at this point from teeny pups to an 80lb 11 mo old pup and has endured a lot but not this.

I just would love to be able to really figure out whether it is just rough play or something that could lead to dog-dog aggression so that the foster organization can make sure she gets what she needs. They are a very good rescue so I don't worry that she would be at risk if it was determined she wasn't good with other dogs

I don't have any valuable advice, but I'm going to keep an eye on this thread because this pup sounds similar to Ruby, so I want to read the advice others post!

Ruby was around a year old when we adopted her and had almost no background info.  We think she may have been taken from her litter too young and therefore didn't have enough time with littermates to learn some boundaries with play style.  She doesn't show teeth or growl or anything like that, but as soon as we got in the classroom with the other dogs, she would get so riled up, wanting to run over to every dog and jump on them, paw their backs, etc.  When we try to calm her or disengage her, it can be a struggle, and her focus is impossible to redirect.  She ends up making this bizarre sound that reminds us of Chewbacca.

After we completed our first behavior class series at the shelter, the trainer suggested we enroll in the playgroup at the shelter (big outdoor area, all fenced in, supervised by staff and several volunteers).  We thought, "Are you NUTS?  She'll take down every dog in there!"  But the trainer said she was just a rambunctious player and would have valuable learning experience in the big group of different dogs.  I was a wreck the first time we brought her -- and sure enough, she started broad-siding dogs left and right.  But she soon started to learn how to read the other dogs' signals.  Some were like Bugsy and just would not engage with her, others gave a little snap or something more vocal.  After a few visits, she learned to find playmates with similar play styles as hers -- jumping, "biting" ears and legs, etc. (it looks kind of scary!).  She's still learning and still greets dogs on walks with too much "enthusiasm," but she's come a long way from a year ago. 

Maybe this pup could use more socializing and playing with even more dogs to expose her to more styles and personalities so she can learn more communication signals?  Like I said, I'm eager to hear what the experienced folks have for advice!

As to the dog aggression concern...I think that is valid.  The issue I see with this sort of play style is that it starts all fun and games but the dog doesn't know when to tone it down and when a dog DOES finally come back at her, it could escalate rather than her taking the correction and knocking it off.  That would be my concern.  I don't know if that's really dog aggression per se, but *anytime* dogs are in a heightened state of drive it's so much more likely that there will be snarks and possibly fights.  I see it all the time at flyball, agility, etc and have seen it among my own dogs.

She was out earlier and as per usual it started great, then she just started to chomp on his legs lol. We have a crazy female boxer behind us and she was out, this is the stuff that concerns me, when the boxer started barking, Dottie took off straight at her and that is when she went over the top. It was hard to pull her away from the fence (4ft solid wood) and when we did as soon as the boxer barked she went for it again. Dottie seems to just completely lose her head. :(

Lies I know what you mean about the fly ball stuff and when a few or more dogs get wired they can let loose on each other. This feels different but perhaps it's a similar phenomenon. I used this evening as a chance to talk to the foster mom about possible owners for her. What sort of fascinates me is how incredibly sweet she is around humans. I mean she will just roll and beg for belly rubs, her ears are always back and soft but it is like a switch flips around dogs.

When B got (gets) nuts its across the board nuts, not selective lol

Just to be clear she wasn't aggressive towards the insane boxer but most of the pups that have visited us and experienced her either freeze in place or want to go away from the fence not run towards it.

She is so sweet I so want her to have a really good home that can handle her

Tracy I think Ruby sounds more silly than any thing else :)

She may just need time.  Pan is not quite the same as what you describe, but he has extremely high prey drive (and very low threshold) which manifested in some not-so-appropriate ways of trying to engage other dogs.  I really didn't let him play with other dogs (other than my own) until this spring and he's 22 months old.  If a dog is genetically wired to be good with other dogs, that won't change.  There's NO risk in letting a puppy grow up a bit and possibly outgrow behaviors that are pestering to other dogs or could escalate into bigger problems, but I do see risks in flooding a puppy with situations its not capable of yet.  Pan still has high prey drive but he's less intense now, he has more self-control and better manners, and most importantly all I have to do is say his name and he stops and comes to me.  He now plays with lots of dogs and is constantly meeting new dogs and is not the problem he was when he was 18 months or less.  He was the same as you describe with people, he has always been very gentle, friendly, and mellow with people.  You touch him and he literally melts.  He was never a mouthy puppy, I mean you cannot even entice him to play-nip/mouth at your hands.  With people he's a gentle love but with other dogs he was quite a little terror for a while and now he has lots of friends, all different breeds too.

Liesje

but I do see risks in flooding a puppy with situations its not capable of yet. 

This is what I was concerned about when we first started taking Ruby to playgroup.  Since we don't know her exact age, she could've been as young as 9 or 10 months when we adopted her, but she definitely wasn't more than 18 months, tops.  Thankfully, she adjusted fairly quickly in the playgroup setting, but we still would never take her to a "regular" unsupervised off-leash dog park.

I've only had one other dog, so I can't make any of the educated observations you make, Lies, about your dogs and other dogs you know well --- but my ignorant assessment (not having 100% understanding of some of the terminology) would be to describe Ruby similarly to how you described Pan (high prey drive and low threshold).  We have noticed a big change in her over the 15 months we've had her, so maybe maturity is helping.  She'll never be a mellow dog when she's around a lot of stimulations, but she definitely shows more ability to settle down now -- I guess you'd call it self-control.  Calling her off when she's super charged up usually works, but mostly for DH, not for me.  She definitely minds him more than she minds me, no matter how low or stern I try to make my voice!

Again, my experience is minimal, but I've seen things that sound like what you guys were describing when rambunctious play gets to be too much, especially if one dog goes over a line and it starts to be more of a scuffle.  Luckily the playgroup monitors watch closely for that and have several ways to intervene on the rare occasion it happens, and so far Ruby has only been on the outskirts of such things, not in the thick of them.

It's interesting you mention the way the pup reacts to the barking Boxer, Karen.  Ruby can be just fine in the yard while we're out there among neighborhood noises right under her nose -- kids, cars, lawn machines, birds, even minimal barking by the dog right next door.  But a new neighbor moved a couple doors down with a Doberman who has a very distinct, deep, scary-sounding bark.  When that dog barks, Ruby stops whatever she's doing and bolts to the fence or into the house to follow the sound (even though she can't see this dog because of where our houses are).  Her hackles go up, and she barks just as scarily back.  It's like she hears something else in that dog's voice.  It takes several treats and talking to get her refocused and calm again.  We've not introduced the dogs yet -- DH met her, and she's people-friendly, but we don't know the neighbors enough yet to find out more about her dog-to-dog behavior.