Whining...whining.... Whining !!

    • Bronze

    Whining...whining.... Whining !!

    I am new to the boards and am hoping to get some help from others with a senior dog. My Tiramisu is going to be 13 years old in August and she has been with me since she was a pup. She is the love of my life and I hate to see her getting older. She started to lose her hearing a year ago or so and can only hear things that are loud and high pitched. She hears me only if I am quite loud. She has always been an extremely excitable girl, which has never been easy to control in that regard. She has had obedience training, some beginner agility, and has her Canine Good Citizen award. Three years ago she tore her left hind ACL and had surgery to repair. Due to the hind leg weaknesses we can no longer do any ball throwing, but we walk day. My problem is the constant whining. She is healthy and this is not a pain related issue. It is an excitement issue. When she lost her hearing, the whining only got louder because she cant hear herself. She just whines about everything... company, when I get home, going outside, waking up in the morning, etc... I cant seem to correct or even tone down the excitement. I am glad she still has so much energy, but I have to admit that the whining is very annoying. The fact that she cant hear any verbal command leaves me at a loss as to how to correct the behavior. She does understand hand signals for sit, down, and stay, but when in the excited state I may as well be waving to the neighbors because Tara wont pay attention. I recently adopted a friend for her, a 5 year old Chihuahua. Although they will never be best buds she does enjoy his company. Her energy level has increased and she has a companion. She is definately the alpha and he is very submissive so it works out well. Now her excitement level has increased 10 fold and the whining comes along with that. My boyfriend of 3 years finally had to beg me to have the dogs sleep downstairs because Tara's 5:00 AM excited whining is definately not a good thing. Tara has always slept in the bed with me/us and although I am still not comfortable with the new sleeping arrangements, she seems to have adjusted well and has her new friend with her. Sorry so long winded but I am quite stressed about how to quiet her down a bit so the house can be a bit more relaxed. Just a note, putting her in "her square" ( just four baby gates attached together) does not stop the whining. Cookies stop it but only while she is chewing. I did try the spray water bottle which I did not like and it only caused her to run away but continue whining.
    • Gold Top Dog

    There will be others to come along with more info.  You said it's not a pain thing but at her age and recent surgery it could be arthritis related.  I know myself as I get older and hubby gets older ( clearly he is much older than me :) )we have aches and pains that sometimes cause us to ouch and moan.  There are herbs and supplements that can help if this is the problem.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm hoping some of the folks who excel in training (LIke Jackie and others) will be by -- most of your answer lies in "clicker training" -- YES YOU CAN!!!

    You will substitute a small flashlight (preferably with a "press on" type of switch so you get an immediate light).  You do NOT want a laser-type beam.  This is one I got (and you can find similar all over -- Batteries Plus, etc.)  So literally you will replace the "click" with a "flash" of the light

    this one has a rubber button on the top:

    http://www.brookstone.com/astro-super-lite-mini-light-colors?bkiid=SearchResults|CategoryProductList|647701p

    another one from Amazon:

    http://www.amazon.com/MICRO-BLACK-KEYCHAIN-BRIGHT-FLASHLIGHT/dp/B001I9EICI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1340811951&sr=8-4&keywords=tiny+flashlight+%2B+led

    Get more than one -- keep on your keys and on your person all the time.  Hang a flashlight by the back door and you'll find it an effective way to "call" a deaf dog in from the night.

    http://www.deafdogs.org have MANY suggestions for training a deaf dog.

    Part of the reason she whines is because it works.  She's identified it as a sound you will pay attention to.  So with the clicker training you have to identify OTHER things that enable her to communicate with YOU.

    Negative reinforcement (punishment) is not only unfair but it's counter-productive.   I would never segregate a dog far away from me at night.  She'll be unable to tell you when she needs to go out or is ill (and then gets in trouble for having an accident).  We have to pay attention to them and avoid the behaviors before they happen rather than punishing them.  The best punishment is to roll up a newspaper and swat *yourself* for failing to help keep her out of trouble and gain her attention before she screws up.

     Rather than simply being upset with the whining -- do somethng pro-active to GET her attention fully on you.  Then you can communicate to her that what she sees is YOUR job to take care of, not hers.  But because she can't hear you, you **Must** engage her eyes.  Even a short shot of obedience on a walk.  "sit", "stand", walk around you and "finish" in a heel.  It's distracting her but reminding her to watch YOU. 

    Beyond training I'd suggest a few things:

    1.  Vet Visit -- as a senior dog with escalating issues, a thyroid panel is definitely in order.  I like the breed specific panels (which are extremely different) from either Hemopet.org or Michigan State.  But a vet visit must be your first step with an older dog.

    2.  Don't try for a big huge "sign" command.  Just use the classic old "shhh" (finger to lips) gesture.  But step in front of the dog so she can SEE you

    3.  I'm not sure a regular 'allopathic' vet can do this, but a TCVM vet (traditional Chinese veterinary medicine)  would have herbs that help an older dog sleep thru the night.  Like elderly humans their schedule gets turned on its head -- they go to sleep earlier in the evening and get up earlier. 

    But again -- please don't just sedate this dog.  Go to your vet -- FIRST.  When an older dog becomes excitable it usually makes me think thyroid.  Some dogs can become hypo (low) thyroid as they age.  Some can reverse that later and become hyper (high) thyroid.  That one can be harder to spot, but it's the more dangerous of the two.

    I'm not the person to tell you all the ins and outs of clicker training but there are a lot of folks on here who are really good at it.

    • Bronze
    Thank you for the quick responses. In regard to the health issues..... Her ACL surgery wS about 3 years ago. No doubt there is arthritis but this is definately an over exitems t issue. Her thyroid was low about 4 months ago and between consulations with my regular vet and my homeopathic vet she has been on a throid supplement. I am happy to say that blood work last week showed normal thyroid levels I completely agree that I have caused this problem. Giving cookies to quiet her down was a bad idea, which I stopped doing. She has always been able to sleep through the night, never crated, and no accidents in the house. She used to wake up at 6:00 AM, the same as me. There was always the morning excitement which. Evan as soon as I opened one eyeball. Running around, squeeling, whining, etc... Cute maybe, but got to the point where waking up was not relaxing. The new 5:00 AM wake time started when I brought home the Chihuahua. Tara is quite excited to see him in the morning so things got started earlier. I do feel bad about having the two dogs sleep downstairs, but they have free rein of lower level, water, beds, couches, etc... and no accidents by either one. Tara is always up on the back of the couch in the morning looking out the window. As soon as I come downstairs, the excitement begins! I like the flashlight idea. I did try the clicker, which worked when she could hear. I do not like the idea of drugs. I could use the Rescue Remedy but only for certain occassions I suppose and not on a regular basis. Tara has always ruled the roost and I allowed that to happen. I feel she gets proper exercise and good quality time with me so I am hoping she is not lacking stimulation. I think the addition of the new dog has been positive, but it has also given her ALOT more energy and stimulation. I would never whack her with anything but do need to get her attention more focused on me and not on just running willy nilly sreaming her head off !
    • Gold Top Dog

    If your homeopathic vet does just classical homeopathy then they might prepare a liquid solution of chamomillia or some other personal remedy for this dog that you could use as a spray (to carry).  If your vet uses Heel products, their "Calming" rocks for my pug.  I've taught her to hibble the tablet from my fingertips and it chills her just enough so actual thought & decision can have their way.  It's an excellent training aid.

    Rescue Remedy will work with some dogs and ... not ... with others.  I've used other Bach flower remedies but that one has never been the winner for me that it is for others.

    • Gold Top Dog
    I have a dog who is a whiner and it is an anxiety/stress related issue. Some dogs just vocalize what is going on in their heads. A couple things would help, one being do some relaxation work with the dog. Get a blanket that you only use for when you want the dog to be calm. Then bring the blanket out and do what is called mat work, massage the dog, give it little treats, use the t touch, etc. Lay down with the dog relax your breathing and your eyes, slow massage movements on the dog and it will calm. After a while, the dog will calm with just the sight of that blanket or with a certain touch you give it or a look. This has worked really well for me. You can do some youtube searches on calming signals and mat work to get some visuals. Keep in mind that this won't cure the whining completely but it will help you manage it. As a last resort you may want to visit the vet and get medical advice on anxiety/stress.
    • Bronze
    I will most definately look into some if the herbal formulas. We also have a wonderful local feed store that carries alot of herbal formulas and tinctures. I have humanized this girl since she was a pup and that of course has created the little monster that I have now. There have been many changes over the past few years but she seems to have adapted well ( i think) When the boyfriend came along 3 years ago I had to start putting her in her square at our meal time due to the constant begging for food. That is where the two dogs stay during our meal time and they are both quiet. As mentioned before, she has always slept on my bed, even with the boyfriend, but with the addition of the new dog and the very early wake up by Tara they sleep downstairs ( i am having a harder time with that than she is) I hate to sound like she is out of control, but when excited she certainly is. The excitement and whining happens every time I come home. Like I mentioned, I stop home several times a day so it is not like she hasnt seen me. There is no separation anxiety as it appears she could care less when I leave.
    • Gold Top Dog

    I've got a few thoughts and a few questions.  You said in your original post that she's always been excitable so this is part of her personality.  The whining sounds like attention seeking behavior and also excitement whining.  Dogs obviously can't talk so they communicate with barks, growls and whines.  Puppies whine to get their mom's attention so it's pretty ingrained behavior but some dogs do it to excess as adults. 

     My JRT whines in the car when he knows, or thinks he knows, we're going somewhere fun for dogs. :) He also barks when he's excited. My Gabby whines, moans, barks, roos and makes just about every noise a dog is capable of making when she's excited or frustrated and sometimes just because she likes to "talk".  I really don't let it bother me too much because it's simply part of their personalities and though I could probably stop it with either harsh corrections or tons of time spent training them to stifle their vocalizations, I choose to let them be themselves.  It does get on my nerves at times so I'm not unsympathetic to your frustration.  With these two dogs, vocalizing is just them and I haven't spent much time trying to change it.  I did teach my dog Belle to not bark at me when she wanted attention.  It took many many months and she will still try it now and then to see if I've forgotten. :)

    I'm wondering about your new dog and whether he vocalizes when you come home or at other times?  Do they both greet you excitedly at the door when you come home?  It could be that getting another dog has caused her to feel in competition with the new dog for your attention.  The boyfriend added to the house could also be making her feel the need to vie for your attention more than previously.  She spent many years as the only dog. You may not have the same time to spend with her one on one.  Not being able to chase her ball also leaves her feeling frustrated since she was used to playing with it for ten years and then it suddenly stopped.  All these things could be contributing to the whining.

    My suggestion is to try to completely ignore her when she's whining.  No eye contact, no touching, no talking.  People often get frustrated and yell at the dog to be quiet but unless they've trained the dog to understand what that means, it's all just noise to the dog.  With attentions seeking behavior, a verbal correction is attention, even if it's negative attention.  When we really get frustrated and start saying "no, be quiet, stop please, you're driving me INSANE!", the dog just gets more ramped up with excitement or anxious because of the negative feedback.  It takes a concious effort, on the part of everyone in the house, but if you can ignore her until she's quiet for ten seconds and then quietly tell her "good quiet" or whatever you want to say as a verbal reward.  If she remains quiet give her a treat and the attention she's seeking. 

     When she's being quiet (like at mealtimes on her square) give her a treat and verbally praise her.  Keep your tone low key to avoid getting her too excited.  When you get home, don't greet her or the other dog.  Walk in without interacting with either of them.  Let them settle down and then quietly greet them, if they are quiet and calm.  Dogs do what works and if whining stops working to get your attention, she will hopefully learn that you pay attention to her only when she's not whining.  This takes time and consistency so don't expect results in a few days.

    I would also try and make some time every day to work with her by herself. She's not used to spending her time with another dog or with sharing you with another person.  She may enjoy the other dog and love your boyfriend but it's still a very drastic change for a dog used to being your one and only.  :)

    • Gold Top Dog

    Can't offer any suggestions, seems like you have some ideas to work with now, though.  The flashlight is a great one, to help communicate with her! 

     

    • Bronze
    Thank you Jackie for all the great information. When I come home my Tara never used to be at the door. Since she cant hear me come in any longer I would generally find her snoozing comfortably on the couch. With enough noise she would wake up and start the excitement. I see now that she is using the new dog ( Paco) as her ears. She pays attention to him and when he gets excited running to the door Tara realuzes something is happening. Paco is totally silent but excited. He chatters a bit, but no whining or barking. He only barks for strangers. I see your point on her trying harder for my attention and I do try to spend extra time with her. I recently gave her back the ball and although I dont throw it like I used to, she carries it around and I roll it to her. I just love her to pieces and worry so much that she is not going to be around forever. At 13 years old she is fill of energy and is healthy and I always seem to let her get away with some bad behavior just as long as she is happy. The problem has become that she is so excited all of the time that I have to make some changes. As I mentioned, she now sleeps downstairs with Paco just so that I dont have to wake up at 5:00 AM to the excited screaming and whining. I do hope she is okay with the sleeping arrangements. She seems to be unaffected by it, but it kills me not to have her in the bed. We recently had a picnic and I finally had to put both dogs inside due to her constant begging and whining. I am sure I didnt answer all your questions but I hope this added some insight.
    • Gold Top Dog

    It's obvious you love her a lot and want her to be happy. Did she start waking you up at 5 before or after Paco and the boyfriend joined your house? Sometimes thinking about the timing of a new behavior gives some insight. In the end, it's often not possible to know why a dog changes it's behavior unless you can see a way to alter something that might affect a positive change in the dog's behavior.

     I read Kathy Sdao's book Plenty in Life is Free a few months ago.  Below are a few links that discuss her philosopy.  I think she has some valid points about training and how withholding what the dog wants, until we get the behavior we want, may not always be the best or easiest solution.  It's not really a novel idea but I've been conditioned, like many people, to want to train a dog to choose the right behavior rather than capturing the behavior I want and rewarding it. I do capture and reward behavior but that's usually when I'm shaping a specific behavior that involves teaching in small increments using a clicker to reward tiny bits of progress toward a goal.

     A reward doesn't have to be food but it's one of the most powerful ones for most dogs. Toys, a game of tug or fetch (roll the ball in your case) can also be powerful rewards. 

    Just thought I would share this since my previous advice might sound more like Nothing in Life is Free type training. I've learned one thing over the years with dogs and that is there are many ways to achieve a goal if you're willing to commit some time to learn and then teach.  Anyway, here are a few links that you might find helpful and interesting.

    http://www.kathysdao.com/articles/Learning_to_See.html

    http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/win-animal-behaviorist-kathy-sdaos-latest-book-plenty-in-life-is-free-reflections-on-training-dogs-and-finding-grace

    • Bronze
    Good morning.... Jackie thank you again for your information. Yes, there is a definate timing to some of her behavior changes. The boyfriend has been around for three years and even with his addition Tara always slept until I woke up. The 5:00 AM wake up started with the addition of Paco. The whining has always been there as well but it wasnt as constant. She has always been very exciteable, but with the hearing loss came the loud whining. I assumed it was because she couldnt hear herself. I guess it never really bothered me too much, but about a year ago the boyfriend pointed out that she was getting very loud. If I let her back on the bed she just cant contain the excitement at wake up time. It is very hard to try to do some training or calming when my poor eyes are barely open.
    • Gold Top Dog

    JackieG
    capturing the behavior I want and rewarding it. 

    It honestly can work *extremely* well when you're dealing with a dog with some kind of a problem.  When we first got Billy years ago, someone had been horribly heavy-handed with him trying to teach "lie down".  We tried everything -- changing the 'words' to the command, on and on -- but he would get so scared any time you would try to either lure him into a 'down' or help him at all -- he was just a shivering mess.  It began to affect the rest of his training (because he just *Knew* eventually we'd get to the dreaded "lie down" command).

    So -- David and I would watch for *any* time he owuld lie down -- and because he was so fearful we would literally just 'comment' aloud to each other "Wow -- look at Billy -- he's doing 'lay down -- what a GOOD boy!'"  Then we'd toss him a treat and directly tell *him* he was doing a good thing.  This was ANY time -- laying in the living room with us, at bedtime, spurious times of rest.  We simply put a 'name' to what he did a LOT of the time.

    Gradually -- we began to isolate the behavior and one day I just said on my way to do something "Just a minute ... can you Lay Down?" JUST as he was doing it.  It progressed fast after that and soon he was doing a lay down with no trauma.

    Your dog isn't traumatized -- just ramped up.  But if you can call attention to it (not just when she IS whining, but when she's relaxed) you'll be able to get closer and closer to capturing the behavior when she's less relaxed.

    Not sure I made sense here -- Jackie's better at describing this, but there's a lot of merit to this sort of thing when you are dealing with a behavior that is difficult to 'catch' and you can't actually help happen (like luring them into a lie down or up into a 'stand' to reward it).  It's not like you can tie their tongue in a knot to make them not whine.  Good luck -- you've gotten a lot of good suggestions.