Teaching Heel

    • Gold Top Dog

    Teaching Heel

    Those of you who walk your dog on your left (probably most of you), did you reinforce your dog using your left or right hand? I've always used my left, and I also keep the pouch on my left. However, I was just reading that Pat Miller recommends using the right hand "so the dog doesn't learn to fixate on your hand." I was used to do it Miller's way, but the trainers at the shelter I volunteer at corrected me and said not to do that because the dog will learn to reach over for the treat. At least that's what I think I remember, that was a long time ago now. Or it might've been that I was holding leash in my right hand, I can't remember.

    Anyway, it comes down to whether I should be using left or right hand to reinforce while heeling. This is such a tough behavior to teach! It's falling apart with a dog I walk. I tried fading the food lure and just using the hand as a prompt and that's where it's breaking down. I keep having to go back to using a treat.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I find that reinforcing with my left hand works just fine.  However, it's important not to leave your hand down there, because then the dog fixates on it in the wrong position!  If you take your hand up to your waist after each reinforcement, the dog looks up and you can even reinforce that if he's still in position.  Remember, heel is more a position than a single behavior;-)  It's also useful, IMO, to teach the dog loose leash walking in all environments first.  I really like Kay Laurence's "circuits" for the purpose of calming a dog down and getting it used to being with a calm handler. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    spiritdogs

    I find that reinforcing with my left hand works just fine.  However, it's important not to leave your hand down there, because then the dog fixates on it in the wrong position!  If you take your hand up to your waist after each reinforcement, the dog looks up and you can even reinforce that if he's still in position.  Remember, heel is more a position than a single behavior;-)  It's also useful, IMO, to teach the dog loose leash walking in all environments first.  I really like Kay Laurence's "circuits" for the purpose of calming a dog down and getting it used to being with a calm handler. 

    Hey spirit. Yep, I make sure the hands are away from dog. I keep them sort of together above my belly like you see a lot of great dog handlers doing when teaching LLW. I like Pat Miller, and think she has many wonderful ideas.. but I don't like this idea. She also stated that she puts treats in plastic bags and keeps them in her pockets so that her dogs aren't focusing on the treat bag and expect to get reinforced only when treat bag is present. She wanted her dogs to expect to be reinforced ANY time. That makes sense, but boy... that makes things complicated not being able to use a treat pouch especially if you're a dog walker like me.

    Kay Laurence. Wow, you know all the popular dog handlers out there. Never heard of her. Googled "Kay Laurerence circuits" and I found a DVD called "Walk Together, Stay Together." Is that what you have? I might have to get it. Looks like you can only get it from the UK from LearningAboutDogs.com.

    EDIT: Just found Kay Laurence's YouTube Channel.

    • Gold Top Dog

    ShelterDogs

    spiritdogs

    I find that reinforcing with my left hand works just fine.  However, it's important not to leave your hand down there, because then the dog fixates on it in the wrong position!  If you take your hand up to your waist after each reinforcement, the dog looks up and you can even reinforce that if he's still in position.  Remember, heel is more a position than a single behavior;-)  It's also useful, IMO, to teach the dog loose leash walking in all environments first.  I really like Kay Laurence's "circuits" for the purpose of calming a dog down and getting it used to being with a calm handler. 

    Hey spirit. Yep, I make sure the hands are away from dog. I keep them sort of together above my belly like you see a lot of great dog handlers doing when teaching LLW. I like Pat Miller, and think she has many wonderful ideas.. but I don't like this idea. She also stated that she puts treats in plastic bags and keeps them in her pockets so that her dogs aren't focusing on the treat bag and expect to get reinforced only when treat bag is present. She wanted her dogs to expect to be reinforced ANY time. That makes sense, but boy... that makes things complicated not being able to use a treat pouch especially if you're a dog walker like me.

    Kay Laurence. Wow, you know all the popular dog handlers out there. Never heard of her. Googled "Kay Laurerence circuits" and I found a DVD called "Walk Together, Stay Together." Is that what you have? I might have to get it. Looks like you can only get it from the UK from LearningAboutDogs.com.

    EDIT: Just found Kay Laurence's YouTube Channel.

     

    Yep, that's the one.  I found out about Kay a long time ago and also have her puppy DVD.  I'm a dog info junkie;-))  

    • Gold Top Dog

     I am new to obedience for the show ring, I recently attended a Bridget Carlsen seminar. She says never correct the dog in heel position. I realize you are talking about reinforcement not correction, but her insight I thought was interesting. She said heeling is boring, and you do not want to discourage anything in the heel position. She suggested if your dog is lagging or whatever you feel you need to correct, you break heel position (she would get in front of her dog) correct it for the bad behavior then set the dog into a behavior to encourage proper heeling, (spinning or whatever) then the dog would move into a proper heel, do 3-4 steps, release and reward for GOOD behavior. I found her method very encouraging to the dogs. She is all about motivation, which especially for Teddi is IMPORTANT.

    She did a lot of spinning into heel, leaping into heel, spinning during heel, and leaping out of heel. It made her dogs quite energetic and bouyant in their heels. She also NEVER treats when four legs are on the ground. She feels you are treating the behavior of calm and still.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Why correct at all?  After all, if the best things on earth happen in heel position, why would the dog want to be anywhere else?  

    This is a really interesting way of teaching heel! http://wordpress.mcscott.co.uk/index.php/archives/840

    • Gold Top Dog

    Maxs Mom

     I am new to obedience for the show ring, I recently attended a Bridget Carlsen seminar. She says never correct the dog in heel position. I realize you are talking about reinforcement not correction, but her insight I thought was interesting. She said heeling is boring, and you do not want to discourage anything in the heel position. She suggested if your dog is lagging or whatever you feel you need to correct, you break heel position (she would get in front of her dog) correct it for the bad behavior then set the dog into a behavior to encourage proper heeling, (spinning or whatever) then the dog would move into a proper heel, do 3-4 steps, release and reward for GOOD behavior. I found her method very encouraging to the dogs. She is all about motivation, which especially for Teddi is IMPORTANT.

     

    This is sort of how I work it with Nikon.  What most people would think of as a physical correction doesn't really compute, it's just nagging to him.  If I want to correct him, I have to let him make a real mistake (like I make a turn and he's not paying attention) and give him a correction, not just a nag.  Constant nagging when the dog is only slightly flat, slightly lagging, etc does not seem productive at all.  But, this is for competition heeling, not working with shelter dogs.  With the shelter dogs, we used the "be a tree" method and that's about it, couldn't really use treats and corrections of any kind weren't appropriate since we didn't know what kind of dog we were dealing with.

    We also do perch work like in Anne's video.  What the girl demonstrates in the video is standard for how I train it.  My dogs need to understand heel/fuss as the position, not the movement.  They learn to find heel from anywhere.  It is really important for the pivots and side-steps in Rally.

    With a puppy like Pan, I'm doing the perch work, training the dog to find heel, and doing the movement (where I'm walking around with the dog heeling).  For the last part, I am feeding the dog as I go.  My goal here is not necessarily for this method to train the heeling, but for the dog to develop the physical conditioning and "muscle memory" for the correct position for a prancy heel with a lot of collecting in the rear.  This style is not at all natural to any dog especially a German shepherd.  Once the puppy is proficient with the perch work and finding heel from anywhere, we start adding the movement/walking in heel position and by then the puppy has done enough luring in that position to move how I want.  About the time the dog is ready for that transition, I'm changing from food reward to a toy reward for heeling sequences.  Pan is 6 months and still getting all food rewards.

    • Gold Top Dog
    spiritdogs

     Why correct at all?  After all, if the best things on earth happen in heel position, why would the dog want to be anywhere else?  

    This is a really interesting way of teaching heel! http://wordpress.mcscott.co.uk/index.php/archives/840

     

     That is Silvia Trkman's method, or at least an overview of the basics of it. She has a DVD out now for heeling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp32djjKdD0&tracker=False

      This is competition style heeling though, not what you'd use IRL on a walk.

    • Gold Top Dog

    spiritdogs
    Why correct at all?  After all, if the best things on earth happen in heel position, why would the dog want to be anywhere else?  


     

    Yep, i never ever correct in heel work. Heel work is not boring at all if you teach and motivate correctly. Both my dogs offer heeling spotaneously and find that it is a fun wonderful joyful thing to do... We have to heel for a long time by US standards too!! There are many things to consider though, and so much can go wrong. If you think you need to correct IMHO you are missing something, the dog hasn't sorted out something or you are just plain boring ot your dog.

    • Gold Top Dog

    spiritdogs

     Why correct at all?  After all, if the best things on earth happen in heel position, why would the dog want to be anywhere else?  

     

     

    I find that punishments, specially in heel, leads to a lot of displacement behaviours. Irrelevant 'ticks' that have nothing to do with heeling.