Good and not so good news

/tacklehugs!

I don't get it though, are there a lot of other dogs at the senior home when she is there?

 hooray for Sandy. Total bummer about Maze. Hopefully you can get it dealt with.

Good for Sandy!!

Did you have BOTH dogs there when it was just you?? 

I never *ever* try to do pet therapy with more than one dog at a time.  You just plain can NOT supervise well enough.  As the handler you have to be completely 100% in tune with every nuance your dog gives off -- so you can anticipate something like a lunge and get the dog away before a bad thing occurs.

You don't have a lot of mentoring help so I'm not fussing at you.  But I'm simply going to tell you that for us, it's a hard and fast rule -- no more than one dog per person at pet therapy EVER.  In other words, even if David and I are both there, we never take all 3 dogs into pet therapy -- just because we can't adequately supervise. 

People -- whether children or seniors -- can be unpredictable.  And when you add other dogs to the mix? Wow -- typically when David and I are somewhere with the dogs doing pet therapy, if other dogs come into range, we move FAR away particularly if they are dogs we don't know because it's WAY too easy for the dogs to get territorial (theirs or ours)

In fact, to be honest we quite going to an alzheimer's home several years ago because ... well they had this weird door set up.  When you came in the front door, there were "offices" right off that front area which was largely just "vacant" reception area.  It was this whole empty place but because most of the "empty" part was behind a big counter it didn't FEEL empty.  And people tended to come in and just STAND THERE talking. 

At that facility -- we would bring both dogs but David would sit out front with one while I went inside with the other.  The residents themselves just weren't supervised well enough for TWO dogs and TWO people to be in there. 

They changed the set up minorly and put chairs just inside that front door and man, that reallyl DID make people just stand and gab there (usually patients' families).  So you'd comein that front door - **never knowing what to expect** and there might be 15 people JUST inside that door and very often the kids were completely unsupervised.

 I had a kid lunge HARD at Billy back when we first had him -- the child was where I couldn't SEE him and it could have been VERY bad.  I had two experiences like that in a row and just decided not to go back but to go elsewhere just because it was too difficult to ensure that it would be pleasant for all. 

In other words -- I'm really sorry Maze over-reacted -- but evaluate that carefully in your head.  Could you have seen that coming??  Was there ANY WAY you  **should** have seen that coming:?  Tension in Maze's neck?  Body tension in the other dog?? etc. --

In other words -- yes, obviously Maze needs more training.  But also --part of YOUR job is to be ultra protective of your dog (whichever it is) and if you size up a situation and decide "Nope -- someone could get in trubble here!" then it's time for YOU to walk away.  Better you just pass it off with a comment like "You know -- we're gong to have to pass today -- I don't think my dog is feeling 100%"

People may be disappointed -- but better that, than something bad happening. 

Did I just make sense?? I hope.

 The seniors home we go to was chosen because of the lack of dogs so there wasn't a major chance of a run in.

Callie, I did have Sandy with me but she was in a crate on the sidelines because her test was in the afternoon. When I'm visiting a home, I only have one dog with me because I know I can't watch both dogs and Maze does need my full attention.  When Maze is about to lunge at another dog, she gets really focused on the dog ie: direct eye contact. Usually when I break her focus, she's good for the rest of the time around that dog. But today she was beyond focused. I think it was a bunch of factors. It was a new place, with strange dogs and I couldn't use food as a reward. 

I'm going to talk to the director and explain what is going on and get her opinion. She knows the residents and building best. Also she's been watching Maze for the past 3 months while we visit.  Of course I'm gonna increase her training and try and get her out with other dogs more. But around here it's surprisingly hard to do. 

ETA: I chose the senior's home also because I can see all around me and the front door. I've made plans in my head just in case something were to happen. I totally get not returning to a place because of the set up. That's one of the reasons I stopped going to Shorncliffe. I couldn't see around corners and they always had loose dogs running aroun.

Callie, this wasn't a regular visit, it was a test at a "test facility." Amber showed us the rules and the rules state that dogs have to be able to pass with 4 dogs in an 8 sq. ft. area. I don't do therapy, but that test really seems like it's setting up dogs that aren't... Misha-on-leash-stupid-dog-friendly to fail.

That part of the test seems... way too stressful, especially for Maze, and the test seems to push any normal situation to the extreme. No food, lots of dogs in a small space. I know you've worked with Maze and that she could pass the rest of the test and had just one mess up is awesome. And it seems like your mentor person, or whoever you've been working with, should be able to step forward and say how you've handled this situation in your actual visits. You know her and her quirks and how she acts around other dogs and what her triggers are, you are working with her and have been. Does she maybe need a refresher course or to have food faded out so she can pass this test? I don't know, but I know you do.

((hugs)) I know you'll work through it, look at how far Maze has come already! She'll get her Therapy Dog Certification soon enough.

Congrats to you and to Sandy!    Maze will get there.  Don't let it get you down.  I know how hard you've trained and how much time you've put into getting her over her reactive issues. 

oops - sorry, I didn't know it was a 'test' facility.

Here you don't *have* to have your dog certified, and in fact, you have to already be working your dog somewhere TO get them certified.  Some dogs just do better in one type of situation over another.

Billy was never a candidate for Give Kids the World because of that abuse before we got him.  we've come a LONG way, but he DID excel at a home for developmentally disabled children (which some dogs just don't do well at PERIOD because of the screaming and smells). 

In other words -- for us the dog's enjoyment is paramount and if a dog isn't comfortable with what goes on at a facility we don't take them there.  My point is -- if it's not something Maze enjoys then re-thinking it so you take Maze other types of places (many which may not need/require certification) may be a better idea. 

When you get to Alberta you may find another type of senior center, or assisted living where it's more laid back and doesn't require certification for dogs in training where you can take him in a more relaxed way and work on the reactivity long term.  I know it's a *goal* for you to have him certified but sometimes dropping back to just what THIS dog enjoys is a good thing.

Just having the other dog crated and on the sidelines would set everbuddy up to not do well I'd think.  It creates an atmosphere of tension that's not conducive to therapy really.

calliecritturs

In other words -- for us the dog's enjoyment is paramount and if a dog isn't comfortable with what goes on at a facility we don't take them there.  My point is -- if it's not something Maze enjoys then re-thinking it so you take Maze other types of places (many which may not need/require certification) may be a better idea. 

When you get to Alberta you may find another type of senior center, or assisted living where it's more laid back and doesn't require certification for dogs in training where you can take him in a more relaxed way and work on the reactivity long term.  I know it's a *goal* for you to have him certified but sometimes dropping back to just what THIS dog enjoys is a good thing.

I have been sitting and watching this thread, contemplating if I would post or not, but this posting has made me want to comment. I totally, utterly, understand what it's like to work through a dog's reactivity and watch a dog blossom. I also understand what it is to have a goal you want to achieve and feel the pride that comes with that - I did it with Shimmer's CGN after working for several years on her environmental sensitivities and her fear of other dogs.

But there does come a point in time when you look at the dog you have in front of you and reality sets in. While there are lots of things about therapy dog orgs that I disagree with (mine are related to breed bias and vaccine schedules for my area), I can see why an organization would expect a dog to be non-reactive in the presence of a therapy situation. Having a dog with any form of reactivity, even if it's to other dogs, can be a liability to both the organization and the people in the facility in which you are doing therapy. You never know if there will be other dogs doing therapy where you are, or if something goes wrong and heaven forbid a dog fight ever broke out, you end up putting seniors, children, patients, and staff (depending on where you are doing your therapy) at risk. It might not seem like a big deal for a dog with "dog issues" to do therapy around people, but if a high percentage of dogs doing therapy reacted towards other dogs in facilities, it would be very problematic.

Another consideration for this is that if you are doing therapy work - chances are you have a much higher chance of being in an area where you may find certified Service Dogs. And people need to be comfortable knowing that service dogs can do their jobs safely and properly without risk to the people or dogs in the area.

I support your decision to continue to try to find ways to work on Maze's reactivity, it's a journey that really should never end. But at the same time I wonder if therapy work might not be the most ideal job for Maze. It doesn't make Maze any less special or the journey you've taken less remarkable. We need to celebrate all of our successes, but we do need to make an effort to see the dog that we have, not the dog we are hoping that it will become.

Shimmer got her CGN, has several Rally titles, and does demos for my business and for my training classes, and people can't believe she used to be any different than the happy worker she is today. But she would never make it as a Therapy Dog. It's just not in her.

 Thanks. Maze loves seniors in all forms. No matter what is going on with them. But I am worried of walking head first into a service dog or another visiting dog. 

I will be continuing to work on her issues, while hunting for a behaviorist who's willing to work with us. And in the mean time, try and find the job for her.  She is so active, I just can't retire her yet..

oranges81

She is so active, I just can't retire her yet..

It's truly not usually about "retire her yet" -- but simply find what fits for HER -- and sometimes the magic happens that as they function in a venue that fits THEM, they then begin to grow because they feel productive.  They calm down because they sense the people NEED them to be that way which then rewards the calm behavior.

Billy is NEVER gonna absolutely love being around unrestrained 3 year old blonde girls.  But he's not a quivering puddle of fearful/agressive jello around them anymore either.  But part of what DID help him was the success he got working with the developmentally disabled children.  For **HIM** it was perfect.  They were kids.  They needed *him* but they didn't rush towards him to stick their fingers in his years and pull either!

Now WE worked with him tons -- created all sorts of situations for him and set up many many training scenarios to help diminish that behavior.  But as he grew more confident it blossomed.  And honestly?  I'm going to say that with Billy having IMHA was a big part of what helped the behavior -- simply because he really began to see how wonderful it was to have people HELP you ... and HE grew emotionally as much as he healed physically.

My point, dear, is give Maze time - but also be creative to find situations for him to interact with the elderly and the emotionally needy on a one on one basis.  Maybe your Dad will have some neighbors that Maze can visit one on one.  Occasions to get Maze out and seeing in real life all the same things they see in a hospital but in a more contained, less public venue.  You don't "give up" or "retire" Maze - you simply work on it from a different angle. 

Everyone tends to think of pet therapy as ALWAYS hospital or nursing home work.  And there are a LOT of other things.

There's a guy posting right now in the AIHA or IMHA thread.  He's got a dog who has gone with him doing AIDs hospice work.  That's special.  It's a dog who's not going to encounter other dogs -- it's simply a dog who will immediately bond with someone and comfort them.

I want my dogs to be certified.  It's important to us.

BUT I also realize that therapy dog stuff is not a social situation either -- it's sometimes done in a one on one setting in someone's home.  Like Billy going home with that tech when he had the quarter operation -- he went home and spent time with her son who is very ill. 

THAT is pet therapy.  It's not me.  It's where a pet's presence is therapeutic.  And SOMETIMES that is just plain a special circumstance for both dog and person.  It can, honestly, be the most powerful pet therapy of all. 

I'm not downplaying the importance of training in pet therapy.  BUT knowing your dog is the biggest deal of all.  And sometimes circumstances change.  Billy can't go to facilities any more.  But some dogs grow beyond it and just don't LIKE it in their mature years.  They grow and change just like we do.