Dog Community

Still agressive after so many things..please read.

Posted : 3/7/2007 4:57:48 AM

Kinda long, please bare with me.

I have had Dakota for 2 1/2 years now. He is a good dog 95% of the time. Little background, I have been living with my girlfriend for 6 years now. She was there since Dakota was a pup. Dakota is an Australian Cattle Dog.

The problems started very shortly after he got "fixed". He bit Jennifer pretty good. It seemed like Dominance Aggression so Jenn started a class with him and he responded very well. (he hates other male dogs but, that is another story) So, we finished the course and tried socializing him even more. The trainer we had was great, she spent 30 minutes after class just on Dakota.

Things were good for a while then Dakota bit Jenn's mother. Her mother was going into a cabinet by his food and he was eating. Possesive Agression. So, we worked on that. He got better, there were still a few things he just couldn't have anymore, rawhides and such because he would still growl. You could call him away from it and make him sit, then go pick up the rawhide and he would be ok.

things were good for a while again then he bit Jenn. We were at the Drive in and Dakota was in the back seat. Jenn reached back to get a drink and he bit her arm. After this we brought him to the vet to have him completley checked out. He was in good health. The vet recommended taking him to Cornell Animal Hospital. It's a teaching vet hospital, very well known from what I understand.

At Cornell, the doctors spent 2 hours with him. They tested his agression in many different ways. He didn't lunge once. Dakota is currently on medication, please forgive me I forget what it is. Once a day. Since Cornell (about 3 months ago, things have been good. 3 days ago, Dakota lunged and bit Jenn again , breaking the skin. I am at a total loss here.

He is great with me. knows all the commands and does them, even for Jenn. Sit, Stay, Settle, speak, wait, nice, etc. The one thing we noticed is, all the times he bit Jenn, it has been "that time of the month".

I guess I am here to spill my heart out hoping we are not alone. It is getting to the point that we may have to put him down and that would break our hearts.

PS: few things I forgot to mention. Yes, the doctors at Cornel are behaviorists. She actually wants to put Dakota on a drug for depression now. Yes, he has been hit. The only times he has been hit was to get him away from Jenn or her Mother when he bit them. I can wave my hand all around his face and he doesn't flinch like a fear agg. dog may. I have had dogs my whole life, I grew up with them. Jenn has never had a dog, nor anybody in their family. It can be tough training a dog and human at the same time.

I guess I am just pulling at strings here. I love Dakota, he is a VERY smart and loving dog........95% of the time.

ron2

Posted : 3/7/2007 6:03:54 AM

You could always use a muzzle whenever you think it's necessary. And you could make it a good thing by giving treats to associate them with the muzzle so that Dakota views it as a good thing.

dakota1

Posted : 3/7/2007 7:03:31 AM

I have thought of that but, his "outbursts" are so random. I would have to muzzle him all the time when Jenn was around.

These attacks come out of nowhere. Jenn can do anything with him for a month, then BANG, Dakota snaps.

denise m

Posted : 3/7/2007 7:47:29 AM

Hopefully some of our trainers/behaviourists will be along to give some advise. In the mean time, I am wondering if Jenn needs to do some work in establishing herself as more of a leader with Dakota? He seems to respect you - but not her. NILF is a good place for her to start. There also seems to be a resource guarding issue.

Chuffy

Posted : 3/7/2007 9:11:36 AM

I second the NILIF idea.

Have you taught "trade"?

And have you done the 5 bowl thing? Put a row of empty food bowls on the floor at mealtimes and have his meal in a pot in your hand. Put a little bit in the first bowl, wait for him to eat it and move on to the next bowl, repeat. When you get to the end of the row, work back again. He will start to dash ahead of you to the next bowl waiting for you to approach and put the food in. He thus gets rewarded for being beside his bowl and fully happy and relaxed as someone approaches. This is a great way to lessen possessive aggression around the food bowl and I have a feeling it has a positive impact on other areas of possessive aggression too although how much is hard to gauge.

Scout in Canada

Posted : 3/7/2007 9:13:17 AM

What is the time frame of all this - from the point when you started investigating and taking action until now? I wonder if Dakota just doesn't like women for some reason - any bad experiences with them? Has he ever lashed out at a guy?

The fact that the behaviorist wants him on depression medication makes me wonder if he has some hard-wired problem.... I don't know. Hopefully the experienced ones of the forum will be on here later and have something to add. Is this a situation where he could be having a seizure?? Since it's so random and inconsistent?

willowchow

Posted : 3/7/2007 9:53:20 AM

I don't have much to offer. These behaviors are sometimes so complex and confusing even in person. It would be hard to try to offer advice over the internet.

What I can offer is emotional support because I know how difficult it can be when your dog is not acting right around your significant other. Willow took a really, really, long time to come around to not growling at my husband. And, it was very tough on me because I was in the middle. I could understand why she was doing what she was doing (not that it was right, but I understood her) and I understood his fear and concerns. And, we had a few arguements because he felt like I was making excuses for her or not caring enough about what she was doing to him. Your absolutely right it can be hard to train a dog and a human at the same time. I know exactly what you mean with that sentence.

Our conversations would go something like, "your dog just growled at me when I tried to pet her". "Well, you can't stand up and lean over her to pet her while she's lying down". "I'm not gonna walk on egg shells around her." You get the idea.

He does do things a little differently with her than I do. If you'd like to know that kind of stuff just let me know.

Lori

tiffy

Posted : 3/7/2007 10:01:52 AM

My friend Ricky also has an ACD and he has also bitten three different times. Very randomly and for no apparent reason. Turns out that Ozzie was having seizures, he is now on daily meds and much better. He still has seizures on occassion, but now Ricky knows the signs.

Scout in Canada

Posted : 3/7/2007 10:15:38 AM

Here is another thread that has some info on seizures:
[linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=199139&mpage=1&key=seizures%2Caggression]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=199139&mpage=1&key=seizures%2Caggression[/link]

In this thread a book is mentioned, "The Dog Who Loved Too Much", which has a chapter that discusses seizures & aggression.

Cita

Posted : 3/7/2007 10:22:50 AM

What I can offer is emotional support because I know how difficult it can be when your dog is not acting right around your significant other. Willow took a really, really, long time to come around to not growling at my husband. And, it was very tough on me because I was in the middle. I could understand why she was doing what she was doing (not that it was right, but I understood her) and I understood his fear and concerns. And, we had a few arguements because he felt like I was making excuses for her or not caring enough about what she was doing to him. Your absolutely right it can be hard to train a dog and a human at the same time. I know exactly what you mean with that sentence.

Seconded. I'm having a lot of trouble convincing my BF that if he doesn't want the dog to be unhappy with him, he has to either leave him alone completely or actually do something positive with the interaction (like NILIF, or just basically giving treats). It sounds like your girlfriend is willing to learn, which is huge. I wish I could offer more help, it must be so difficult for all of you...

mudpuppy

Posted : 3/7/2007 10:43:15 AM

can you describe in great detail one of these biting incidents? it's hard to figure out exactly what might be going on. Any detail you can think of.

Ixas_girl

Posted : 3/7/2007 12:46:08 PM

ORIGINAL: dakota1

We were at the Drive in and Dakota was in the back seat. Jenn reached back to get a drink and he bit her arm.

I'm wondering if there's an access issue. Is the dog crate trained? What are the house rules, as far as where the dog goes, hangs out, sleeps?
My point is that, pit might helpt to think about what is really safe to do with this dog. Maybe this is not a dog that can have free reign in your house and your social life. Maybe the loose and free desire to have him in the car with you for the drive-in isn't the best idea for him.

dakota1

Posted : 3/7/2007 7:42:04 PM

I'll try to answer some of the questions as best I can.

The time he bit my GF by his dish was totally random. Jenn is the ONLY one that feeds him. She has taken the dish away from him before while he was eating. She makes him do a few things (sit, down, settle) before she gives him his food.

Jenn really has done a lot to prove to him she is alpha. I have ignored the dog for a week before while she was working on this with him. Now its very hard because, with good reason, she is afraid of him. He has bitten her 3 times now. Not just nips, breaking skin.

Dakota doesn't get a toy, unless Jenn gives it to him. She can take the toy away from him but you can tell he doesn't like it. he has never bitten her when she took a toy away.

Dakota is crate trained. We just recently took the crate away ( about 2 weeks ago). He used to (about a year ago) like to eat the couch so when we went away , he went in his cage, which he never seemed to mind. We have finally weened him off the crate slowly. We can leave the house for hours and no distruction.

We got Dakota in June of 04. His first biting/ agression problem was within a week of his being "fixed". I can't recall exactly but, I think he was about 4 months when he was fixed. So, we have been dealing with this problem from time to time for about 2 years.

He has never bitten a Male. He has bitten my GF and her Mother. Jenn's parents stay (used to) with us when they come in town. Dakota has never bitten her Father.

When Jenn comes home from work, Dakota will almost cower and stay away from her for about 15 minutes. Same for her Mother. He immediately comes to me. I try to ignore him so I don't encourage this behavior.

One other thing, Dakota does that "nervous yawn" thing when jenn is around. Not all the time, but he may do it for like 5 minutes, then settle down.

As far as I can recall, I don't ever remember him having a bad experience with a female.

PS: thanks so much for reading our story here. It means a lot. We both love Dakota. Jenn loves him even though she has been his target. He is such a smart dog. It would kill both of us to have to put him to sleep but we may end up doing just that. We never know when he may bite again. It is just so "out of the blue".

jennie_c_d

Posted : 3/7/2007 10:33:26 PM

It sounds, to me, like your dog is afraid of your girlfriend. The 'nervous yawn' is an appeasement behavior. He's biting her when she reaches towards him, or moves past him and surprizes him. He hides when she comes home.

Is it possible that something your girlfriend is doing is scaring him? How sensitive of a dog is he? Maybe he's feeding off of her fear?

dakota1

Posted : 3/7/2007 10:58:58 PM

Very sensitive. I swear he knows what we are thinking all the time.

For a long time, when Jenn was giving him comands, he would do this very little gorwl. Almost not a growl, like a grunt. He finally stopped doing it with work but every once in a blue moon he will do it.

I am convinced he is fear agressive. The only times he has bitten was when he was startled. I just dont understand why he is like that with her because, she has never laid a hand on him.

Back to the sensitive part. It took us a while when walking him to calm ourselves when another male dog was walking by. Dakota used to lunge at male dogs but now he just walks by them and I am convinced it is because I am calm when walking him. It was the same with bikes too.