Dog Cognition

 OK

I'm not shy, so I'll start.

"Would the dog with no neo-cortex make a better house pet? "

I think it would be a very bad pet.  It would have instinctive erratic affective responses, like 'Oh, here I am seeking' when 'wild fear - a human face; I have no stored emotion of this...rage.'

Is this a possible scenario, or are memories created at the sub cortical level?   

 Hi Burl

I have every intention of taking part. I haven't heard the podcast, but form his book Afective Neuroscience, it is interesting to read how consistent those seven affective responses are.

You can then observe your dog and notice how consistent they are.

Every day i change the way i train my dog and others based on how dogs respond affectively to environment and stimuli.

I noticed the other day that with a dog that I have observed for a long time with a fear response to Stand for Examination (probably bought about by quite tough training at the beginning compounded by an injury) which we would believe to be a memory from a series of events (goodness know where in the brain)  completely change on a couple of events when in play mode.. There has been a long history of attempted but erratic CC.  So where are the memories? Why were they erased so quickly? Why did this mode swamp the fear?

I will try and answer later...

Poodle

 I am impressed how you incorporate Jaak Panksepp  (JP) into your training heuristics.

I do not know brain anatomy, so where memory is stored ( cortical, sub, or neo)  is not in my tool bag.  And as for the questions I asked, it seems extremely important to know this.

Maybe some forum members can help here.

 I am a mere EE, (electronics engineer),but we are really interesed in brain functions and emotions as they give us pointers to structures that may be efficient processors in our world. In our world we are usually divide computing systems in to memory and processing. We further divide this system in to software and hardware. What it seems in very quick summary is that the brain is wetware with software and hardware interlinked. I am talking layers of abstraction away from say Milky way or Corvus, two listees that may help us here..much more than i can

We do seperate behaviours that we are born with (emotional) and behaviours we learn. It might be that some kind of entropy or efficiency is involved here, i don't know for sure. It would make anatomical sense and evolutionary sense if any memory related to the stimulii of affective states laid in the area determing that state. It would also be most efficient in terms of connections.

Here's a brief article in Scientific American that mentions memories being stored in different areas of the brain depending on how old the memory is.  http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-memory-trace

And, briefly, on the similarity of cognitive dysfunction in aging dogs and humans, and the areas of the brain affected: http://www.bioportfolio.com/resources/pmarticle/87670/Neurobiology-Of-The-Aging-Dog.html  

 Thanks SD.  Looks like the cortex is crucial and the old limbic area too.  I simply forget all these terms the same day I hear them, and I have spent days listening and watching brain studies online.

I am listening to #12 of Ginger Campbell's podcasts

 PO, she says emotional memory is in the amygdala - in the old limbic region, as is the hippocampus (who knew hippos went to college!)

#11 is very informative on how emotions affect behavior on a continuum with cortical control kicking more and more as an event progresses - initial reaction is pure emotion.

Here is link to all 71 podcasts. 

 http://www.brainsciencepodcast.com/episodes-page/

When I was studying evolution, it was considered that the human brain was the culmination of three types of brains, one of which was the reptillian. The next layer was the limbic, and governs what it sounds like. Our autonomic features and ambulatory nature. The outer lay and most recent addition is the neocortex. This involves actions higher than breathing and eating. And I think it's a matter of tissue complexity and connectivity. Which is why dogs can have the same level of intelligence, regardless of physical size.

 The tr

ron2

When I was studying evolution, it was considered that the human brain was the culmination of three types of brains, one of which was the reptillian. 

TheMilkyWay

The tr

ron2

When I was studying evolution, it was considered that the human brain was the culmination of three types of brains, one of which was the reptillian. 

You are talking about MacLean's triune brain model, which I think, is a little outdated. That doesn't mean all it's implications should be ignored.

HI Milky Way

This is entirely out of a kind of laziness, but i  find the triune model a good way of explaining ot others how things sort of topographically fit. Sure it undermines interconnections  and shared functions etc. Could you point me to a more succint model for this purpose?

BTW we should note that we are talking about dog cognition. A decade ago the raging debate may well have been "Do dogs have cognition?"

 Hi Ron

ron2

My ignorance is greater than my knowledge.

Mine too. All that i know is that this stuff make my brain hurt... It was so much easier 20 years ago. dogs were going to take over the household, and it was you rmoral duty to show them who the boss was... Given up on my poodles. My older one puts my commands in the request to be undertaken when i feel like it catergory.. :)) I hope that you get my aussie/kiwi  huomour

 Ron, it seems to me that the brain as an evolved organ predominates in neuroscience as does Darwin in most bio-science..

ron2

My ignorance is greater than my knowledge.

That's the good kind of ignorance.  The good ignorance is like a fertile field in which nothing has yet been cultivated but with deliberate, careful management you can have a productive and useful landscape.

The bad ignorance is that same field which has been filled with weeds, crabgrass and invasive plants, and no real knowledge can take root because it is choked off by the residents. Superstition, pseudoscience, apophenia, patternicity are the weeds that get in the way of knowledge.