Pan's driving me nuts!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Pan's driving me nuts!

    OK it's not really that bad, but he just tired himself out from doing this high pitched squeal for the past hour and a half so I sort of have a headache.

    95% of the time, Pan is awesome.  He comes to work during the day and is fine in his kennel in the van.  He's quiet and either sleeps or chews his bully sticks.  In the morning he runs to the door by his crate, and after a long walk at work he goes right back to the van and whines to go back in.  I take him out on breaks and we go exploring or socializing (I work on a college campus).  When the van is moving he stays quiet and settled and he's also doing a good job staying quiet between turns at Schutzhund training.  At home he's as good as can be expected in the house.  He's into everything but is not a monster chewer and when he has free time there are probably 50 dog toys out.  He loves the dog toys so I rarely have trouble keeping him from chewing other stuff.  He loves the other dogs and loves playing with them.  At night he often gets tired and crawls into his crate in the bedroom on his own.  He loves to play outside and goes out willingly (he's not scared or the type of dog I have to take out on lead to go potty).  Sometimes he even wants to stay out by himself, which I don't allow but he's not so clingy that he has to be underfoot 24/7.  Training is going great, he knows his name, sit, platz, come, and we do some puppy heeling with food lures.  Last night he started perch work.  Puppy STAR class starts Wed.  He's 11 weeks old and so far since I got him at 7 weeks there's only been one day I haven't taken him somewhere outside the house to socialize.

    OK, so the ONE problem is that he is obsessed with Nikon and freaks out when he is confined away from Nikon.  Nikon loves having a young playmate so I give them a lot of time together, but if I call Pan to me, he comes and he wants to train or play with me.  It's not like he blows me off for Nikon.  Nikon has earned his freedom and gets to wander around as he pleases but Pan is still on a "schedule" of free time vs. crate time.  If Pan is tired, he has no problem sleeping in his crate and this time around I'm doing better at not tip-toeing around the house while the puppy sleeps, he needs to get used to the noises and movement.  However if Pan is not tired, he just won't do anything in the crate by himself.  He just paces around, whining and screaming, trying to climb out.  It's the worse when Nikon is moving around or doing something with me. 

    I feel like a big meanie leaving Pan in there when he's not tired but I know he's GOT to learn to me in there when other people and dogs are out, it's not enough to just be crated in the van alone or crated at night while everyone sleeps.  Am I wrong or is the tough love appropriate here?  I do let him out occasionally for potty, and he has chews and a dozen toys in the crate.  It's a 42" crate and he's a 15lbs puppy so he has more than enough room even if he's awake.  I feel like as it is he gets a LOT more free time and freedom than most puppies especially with what people describe on here.  I don't think it's unreasonable to intentionally crate him at times when he's not dead tired, do you?

    • Gold Top Dog

    are you covering the crate? Sully will not "turn off" unless his crate is covered by a towel. I have had a few pups like that. He is in a vari kennel type not a wire crate...it's be MUCH worse in a wire I have no doubt. He is a somewhat forward, bossy, busy puppy and he just needs a visible barrier and somewhat of a quiet atmosphere to settle himself. He is not isolated, but he's in the dining room...a less used room when everyone is home. Cleo is loose most of the day.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Oh I share your problem. I often crate 2 dogs and work on 1 and man do I ever hear the back talking because of it. I've tried the tough love and it doesn't work that well. What I'm doing now is I will work one dog in front of the other 2 while they are crated. If they are quiet during this time, they get random treats. If not, they get nothing. They do pick up on this pretty quickly.

    I don't know if it will work in the long run, but I'm hoping.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I thought about it today, almost got up and did it, but then wondered if that creates the same problem?  Eventually he needs to learn to settle and chew a bully stick or work on a Kong by himself in the crate regardless of what is going on around him. I guess I don't know whether to "work him up" to something like that (cover the crate or move it) or if it's better that he just learn to deal with it now?

    I do have a plastic kennel and he HATES it.  You have to shove him in while he's screaming and clinging to the sides, lol. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Huh. Not sure why a cover is really bad tho. In bad weather at least it actually is NECESSARY at sport events. I see plenty of covered and zippered in crates at shows, too. To me it's just something some dogs need to be able to settle in a crate...and it sounds like a crate WILL be part of his life as a dog that "does stuff" so why not make it comfortable?

    • Gold Top Dog
    To me its better to work up rather than expecting big results from expecting a dog to just deal with it. its no different than training anything else. You don't expect a 15 min down stay right off the bat. You increase the duration slowly
    • Gold Top Dog
    I knew one dog who settled great in the crate if it was 3/4 covered, wouldn't go in without a cover :-/ the breeder recommended using a cover to make it more den-like. Another thing you can do is uncover it gradually as long as he stays calm, but twitch the cover back if he makes a ruckus... Not sure if that approach is ok for dogs that do SchH tho...?
    • Gold Top Dog

    SchH is not the problem, he's uncovered there (as he is at home while we're gone, riding in the car, and at night) and he's very quiet and well behaved, better than Nikon at times!  It's just when he's not sleeping and Nikon is moving about, playing with me, or training with me.  I didn't have the same problem with Nikon or Ana because Coke and Kenya are so low energy, but Nikon still needs the same amount of attention as a puppy, we still do things together indoors, play with his toys, etc.  I want Pan to learn that his life is not going to end because we aren't three-way tugging or I choose not to train 2-3 dogs at a time.  I already put the puppy pen away because Pan would climb it trying to get out and I didn't want him to keep falling on his back.

    I'll try the cover later and see if it fools him.  The more enclosed crate was already a major failure but he's just about outgrown it already anyway.

    • Gold Top Dog

    My only concern about covering the crate is that Pan might try to chew/pull the cover through the wire.  Otherwise, I think it's a good idea.  My suggestion was going to be crating him in another room so he can't see Nikon moving about.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I doubt crating in another room would work since Pan will still know that Nikon is out and about playing or training. They have pretty good hearing. I can crate my dogs in my room with the door shut and train one in the basement and they still know.

    Abbie does not do well in an enclosed crate (vari kennel), but does ok with a cover on a wire crate. I have no idea why there's a difference, but there is to her so that's all that matters.


    • Gold Top Dog

     Can you work with Pan while Nikon is out and about? I'm thinking that you should play crate games with Pan while Nikon is out milling around the house. Although Nikon might want to butt in. Not sure if he is calm enough to try that yet. However, you can work then in tandem - Pan in the crate for 5 seconds while you play tug with Nikon then switch. Increase the duration each day.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Depends on the type of work.  I can do Pan's obedience with everyone out.  Flirt/bite/prey....only one at a time for safety.  I can't do Nikon's obedience with Pan out, he will probably get landed on and crushed.