Finally caught female black lab rubbing along the one wall in hallway.

If it were me...I mgiht try some Duct tape doubled back on itself there...adhered to the wall. If it is physically uncomfortable to do it...she may be deterred. They also sell something called the "Tattler" a small device that is motion triggered that makes a VERY unattractive noise when the beam is walked thru. It could be placed on the floor or even taped to the wall in such a fashion to go off when she approaches to do her thing.

Also, lastly, they sell "carpet runners" that are clear plastic with nubs on the backside. If you cut one of these down to a strip you could adhere it to the floor along that part of the wall. It would be uncomfortable for her to tread on...and within a couple of weeks, she might forget all about it and you could remove the strip...or she might just move someplace else to rub.

Females DO have a certain areas along the flank, and near the base of the tail that are very sensitive and it feels rather good for them to be scratched there. Contact with that spot is common during mating so that plays into the why of it. Not sure if that is where she is rubbing but there ya go!

Yes I did see that tattler but it looked like the motion detector eye part was a wide area and we would be tripping that all the time in the hallway. That is why I thought one with narrow beam of light would work. You are right about the carpet nubs possibly working. I know we have round gravel outside and she doesn't like walking on that so that would be worth trying. Since we just painted this summer I am a little apprehensive in putting duct tape on it fearing it will take paint off when I have to remove it or if she rubs it off. But maybe that blue painters tape. My luck she will like the added tape to rub on! She is fixed female and when I caught her she did the U ie in the hallway in order to rub along her right side. She rubbed her whole right side right to the end of the wall! Thank you for taking the time and giving me some good ideas to try. You got me thinking in different ways on how to approach this.

 Whatever you decide to do, please don't think your dog is "sneaky" - she's just not trained.  Dogs don't generalize very well, so you may well have trained her not to go on furniture while you are in the area, but she may simply not understand that the furniture is off limits when you are absent from the area.  My guess is that you have punished her when she does it with you present, so she just learned to be afraid to do it if she can see you.  The "look" of guilt is in reaction to your own body language - and is just an appeasement behavior designed to tell you that she means no harm.

Dogs are going to find ways to releave an itch, no matter how much you fuss at them.  We use to have a big Bouvier that after she ate she would go out in the hall and throw herself on the floor and against the wall. I don't know if it helped settle her food down, let her burp or what, but she did this for years. We have others that slide along the wall when they go up and down stairs and other spots on walls where dogs like to lay against when they are sleeping.  When we get around to re-painting, we are going to put a good quality enamel based paint along the bottom 2 or 3 feet of wall so that it is tougher and washable.  

I look at it as the cost of having dogs... and I'd much rather have dirty walls and dogs than have clean walls and none.  

Mike
 

Thanks for your response but I really don't buy it. You mean you have never seen a dog do something they know they are not suppose to do and have been so called trained not to do? Well if we accept your premise then how is owner going to train a dog not to do certain behaviors/sneaky stuff when the owner is gone when owners aren't  there to say no? What is the point here? I choose the word sneaky and stand by it in this case sorry you feel I am being mean but your logic makes no practical sense in this case. I am sure it is an appeasement reaction there is no doubt about that. How come one lab does it and the other doesn't? One understands and the other doesn't? Wouldn't the pack leader the older male who doesn't do it be the one the younger female would follow? So do I have to buy hidden cameras connected to internet and go to coffee shop and then sit there and watch her from there and when she does decide to rub up against the wall then say no through a microphone in order to train her when I am not there? What are you posting here?

 Mike,

Thanks for your post. Yeah I think we have both. I just painted with a more durable paint but the collar is going to wear off the paint and  texture eventually and the other lab doesn't do it nor can I recall all the dogs I had never did this. So that is why it is so new to me. I was hoping that others have found some good ways to deter them from this. You are right about certain things that no matter how much of a fuss you make about it they are still going to do it if the situation allows. That is why I was hoping for a tip on how to deter her when she does try it.  I adopted both dogs the older male at two years and the younger female at 6 months and the female is much more stubborn about things then the laid back male in many respects but not all. They have very distinct personalities and depending on what it is they react completely differently under the same circumstances. 

Why not just crate her when you aren't home or supervising? That should solve the wall rubbing & her getting up on the furniture.

The other alternative, IMO, would be to paint the hallway a darker color, & invest in couch covers for when you aren't home.

 She is not being sneaky, but it may seem like it. She has learned that when you are home, or at least when she believes you are home, it's not okay to do those things. She learned that when you aren't there, it's ok to do these things. She can't get into trouble if you aren't there, and she can tell the difference.

A very simple solution to your problem, is what Amanda suggested, a crate. I understand though that this may not be an option due to some issues we may not be aware of. Other options might include a baby gate to block access to the area when you aren't there, or leaving her in a specific room, as it sounds like she has run of the house when you aren't there. To solve your wall problem, you could remove her collar when you are not home if you feel it is safe to do so, as it sounds like it might be her collar rubbing against the wall. If you for some reason don't think her collar can be completely removed while you are gone, getting her something that is embroidered, rather than having tags hanging from her collar might be an option. I like to change my dog's collar a lot, so I have a little quick release holder to put the tags on his collar. You could use something like this, and I have seen something that you can put over the tags to keep them silent. This again might solve the tag rubbing issue if that is it.

For your couch issue, there are a number of less kind ways to take care of this while you are gone.  Putting something there to block her is a solution you came up with yourself already. You could just put a cover on the chair and let her do it. If you don't want her to do it, you could try a crate, a gate, or a room.

Of course, you can train her, but there are lots of simple things you could do in the meantime while you train. 

To think of dogs as being "sneaky or guilty" implies they have the same values about furniture and walls and carpets or any of the other furnishings that some people value so highly.  Dog don't care if you paid $5,000.00 for your couch or picked it up on the side of the road.  They don't have any concept of a freshly painted wall, other than the odor of the paint.  It's our reaction to their actions regarding these objects that illicits a response that some people misread as guilt.  You can't ever train a dog to have our value system.  Luckily dogs are predisposed to try and get along with humans.  Take emotion out of the equation and try and think about it from the dog's point of view.

I would restrict access to the objects that you value.  When you give up on the notion that the dog is purposely doing things it knows it shouldn't training will be much easier for you and the dog. 

Thanks for your response but I really don't buy it.  You aren't alone.  Many people have this idea about dogs and I think it's because we assume that they think the way we do. 

You mean you have never seen a dog do something they know they are not suppose to do and have been so called trained not to do?  Sure I have.  Even the best trained dogs make errors sometimes.  No one's perfect, human or dog.  But, that doesn't mean it's willful disobedience every time it happens.  If it's occasional, get a grip - it's just a lapse.  Overlook it.  If it's habitual, chances are that the dog has not been sufficiently proofed in training, or that, through lack of reinforcement for the right behavior, the dog has stopped thinking that the correct behavior is very useful.  Dogs don't do what we tell them because they are altruistic.  They do it because there's something in it for them.  The "something" could be praise, food, a toy, access to the outdoors, whatever it is they want.

Well if we accept your premise then how is owner going to train a dog not to do certain behaviors/sneaky stuff when the owner is gone when owners aren't  there to say no?

There are effective techniques that owners can use.  They include managing puppies when young to *prevent* certain behaviors from ever occurring.  Some trainers use clicker training to build duration on a "stay away from the wall (or couch, or counter, or bed)" behavior.  Others use devices such as a Manners Minder.  Some use punishments such as scat mats, sticky tape, booby traps, etc. (Not my choice.)  With those, the key is that they should not be associated with the owner's presence.

What is the point here? I choose the word sneaky and stand by it in this case sorry you feel I am being mean but your logic makes no practical sense in this case.  And I stand by several decades of dog training experience and science-based knowledge of dog behavior.  But, what do I know?

I am sure it is an appeasement reaction there is no doubt about that. How come one lab does it and the other doesn't? One understands and the other doesn't? Wouldn't the pack leader the older male who doesn't do it be the one the younger female would follow? So do I have to buy hidden cameras connected to internet and go to coffee shop and then sit there and watch her from there and when she does decide to rub up against the wall then say no through a microphone in order to train her when I am not there?   Actually, that is a GREAT idea!  Many trainers DO use video and noise aversion to correct a behavior like that.  Most owners are too lazy, or, unlike you, don't even think of it.  If you want to see it in action, there's an episode of "It's Me or the Dog" where Victoria Stillwell corrects a dog that opens the family fridge!  Dogs are capable of learning from one another, but even if the "leader" dog (dogs don't really have a linear hierarchy anyway, but that's another topic) does as you think he should, that doesn't mean that he gives a sweet rat's butt if the female wants to scratch herself, and he may well, as someone else pointed out, think it's quite normal for a female to be doing that. 

I do 100% believe dogs can be sneaky. They are sneaky with one another and with their owners.

That doesn't imply some "human" characteristic. Nature has sneaky animals within her entire spectrum...animals utilize camoflauge, misdirection, mimicry, and outright LYING (the broken wing trick for example).

People get just so hung up on not "applying human characteristics to animals" that they forget we don't hold the major stock in ANY of that stuff lol. We are all animals and we all have things in common. IMO the "humans only" thing comes in AFTER the act...a human is apt to dwell on their actions...sometimes for a LIFETIME.

There ARE sneaky dogs just like there are sneaky people...the acts they do may differ because one has opposable thumbs and the other does not. Call it opportunistic if that makes you feel better tho. Or hey how about "problem solving" or "stealthy". Semantics.

The only difference is that a sneaky person might feel bad about their actions when caught out, where a dog won't....people have guilt and remorse, where dogs just have consequences that they then move on from. Hmm seems like people could learn a lot from a dog.

rwbeagles

I do 100% believe dogs can be sneaky. They are sneaky with one another and with their owners.

That doesn't imply some "human" characteristic. Nature has sneaky animals within her entire spectrum...animals utilize camoflauge, misdirection, mimicry, and outright LYING (the broken wing trick for example).

You're correct.  The distinction, in my mind, is that all animals use subterfuge, misdirction, camo and sneakiness in RESPONSE to something that will impact their fulfillment of a goal.  Birds don't fear predators where there are no predators.  Some can't fly because they lost the need for flight if there is nothing to fly away from and they have a food source on the ground.  There is no need for camoflauge if you have no predators trying to eat you and/or your food is readily available and you don't need to sneak up on it.  The broken wing trick is to lure predators away from a nest.  No predators will gradually eliminate the need for this type of response.

If a dog is never corrected for getting on the couch, it will not be sneaky about it.  If a dog is allowed to take food from a human's plate with no reaction from the human, it won't bother to wait for the owner to leave the room the next time opportunity offers food. Set your plate down on the coffee table and the dog will assume you're done and help himself.  Dogs do understand possession rules and they generally respect them among themselves and with their humans.   A dog sees a human sitting on the couch.  Few dogs will try to move the human so they can sit in that exact spot.  The human leaves the couch and the room.  Dog jumps up and lays down because the human isn't in possession and the dog sees nothing wrong with that concept. That's not being sneaky, IMO.  It's being a dog.

Fulfillment of a goal...is typically the motivation for sneaky PEOPLE, too. LOL. If a child is never corrected for taking candy from the dish on the table whenever it wants it will never be sneaky about it. Same. Exact. Thing. It is not the sole province of people to be sneaky. It is the sole province of people to attach a ""bad" connotation to the word and take ownership of it. Or over expound on a simple basic concept. 

Sneaky: marked by stealth, furtiveness, or shiftiness.

A dog will see something it wants in another dogs possession...go gets somethin ELSE, act like it is the best thing in the world and then when the other dog leaves its possession to grab the great new one, the original plotter will move in and take the prize. That is sneaky. The way the human feels about it...how they think the dog SHOULD feel about it's actions..is the humanization IMO. Not the act itself. Sneaky is found thruout the animal kingdom. The need to own the word sneaky is found in the human.

rwbeagles

It is the sole province of people to attach a ""bad" connotation to the word and take ownership of it. Or over expound on a simple basic concept. 

 

I'm not sure how you go about owning a word. lol  I'm sure no one here is ever guilty of expounding on a simple basic concept. That's obvious from some of the current Training threads.