Transferred frustration turns into aggression (CoBuHe)

Oh Barb, no advice, just sympathy and hopes for a fix. Not a quick one, but a good solid one.

Kord is not cat aggressive to our cats and will actually play and sleep with them. He will chase any of the nuisance cats that appear in the yard, and he does it silently, the only warning I have usually is his sudden, for want of a better word, stillness.

When I brought him home I made sure to not coddle him with the cats, they were allowed, within reason of course, to correct him. He learned their boundaries and they learned his.

Now, in that we are in the same situation, because my cat does to Kord what Heidi is doing to Bruder. Taking out some kind of frustration or anger issues. I have been fortunate to only have had one situation where the cat cornered Kord on the bed near me when I was sleeping, at that time Kord actually gave a huge serious growled warning, serious enough that I woke up in time to see my cat launch himself at Kord and Kord respond, to the point that I had to separate them.

I hope you get it resolved soon.

Barb, knowing you this is likely a very dumb question, but, has she had a really complete vet check lately?

I'm afraid that the best I can offer is management thots.  That's what I'm having to do, but at least for us, it's short term.

I do think that the idea of covering those windows completely is a great one.  Hopefully that will help.

Barb, does she like toys?  I ask because Nikon does the same thing, to a lesser extreme, and I've found that redirecting him to toys works fabulously.  His problem is that when DH comes home or new people come in and get the dogs all riled up, Nikon gets really excited and vocal and will sometimes redirected at Coke or Kenya.  In these situations, his is more play (he does the same things he does when they're play-wrestling) and it doesn't escalate, but it's still annoying.  If I have toys about or quick toss one at him, he just carries a toy in his mouth and that's that.  Outside, he will sometimes run the fence if there are cats and other dogs, so I also have toys in the yard and he now has a habit of getting one on his own and just running the fence with it in his mouth.  If the cat is right on the fence, he will even growl into the toy and shake it like he's pretending to kill the cat.  He's never trustworthy with cats, so I just let this be.  It keeps his frustration directed to the toy and prevents barking.  With him it's more about patrolling his territory than wanting to get out and kill a cat.  It's like he's saying to the cat or dog, "this is MY area and if you step across the line I will shake you like I'm shaking this toy".  I often take him outside the fence to work obedience off lead and he is under control around the roaming cats and rabbits.

No such thing as dumb questions...she sees the vet on a regular basis.  But, if you mean a complete blood panel...no.  Just the typical exams. 

Heidi is "hyperactive"  Or perhaps I should say "hyperkinetic."  And, what I mean by that...is she is constantly moving.  Always has to be doing something.  Now, don't get me wrong...she does rest.  And, she does (normally) have an off switch.  She knows "easy" to settle down rough play.  She knows "enough" to stop play.  However, this does not work when this type of frustration occurs.

One of the issues (regret) that I live with is not properly introducing her to the cats when she was a puppy.  Huge mistake.  In my own defense (albeit lame), I have never had a dog who didn't live with and interact with the resident cats just fine.  Somebuddy just moved in, and they say Hai...and life goes on, and Heidi is my 4th GSD in my lifetime.  With Heidi, I missed golden opportunities when she was a wee pup.  And, to top that off...when she was about 3 months old, we had an instance where the cat was outside with us on the back porch and went running into the woods...Heidi saw this and ran after the cat.  She didn't catch the cat, the cat didn't hurt her...it was "the chase."  It just takes one small mistake to formulate a lifetime of issues. 

Lies, she is ball crazy...so yes, she likes toys.  And, I hear ya.  I do the same thing in redirecting her to her ball or something else.  9 times out of 10, it works if I can catch her before it escalates.  She does well when I first catch her noticing...I can call her away to play, get her attention away.

Something I find very behaviorily (is that a word?) interesting with her:  She reacts differently when at different locations. 

• When inside and barricaded and hears or sees a cat:  she barks but does not jump up on the baby gate.  I'll immediately tell her "not for you" and she will whine but stop because by this time the cat has left the room in reaction to the bark.
• When on the back porch and sees a cat through the french door:  If she has her Cuz in her mouth...she'll drop the ball.  She barks, she jumps UP on the french door and gets terribly frustrated and escalated.
• When on the back porch and sees a cat through the other door:  If she has her Cuz in her mouth...she does not drop the ball.  Her hackles go up, she spins, and she shakes the ball...but never drops the ball.  Even at this point, I can call her away, and get her into something else.

All very interesting to me how she behaves differently with each door/location.

Management with blinds is good.

I also suggest teaching her an on off game / switch. I have not taught this one yet to abbie, so I can't give advice on it but I have seen it work wonders for other dogs. One dog in particular, a mal, redirected frustration to its owner. The on off game pretty much fixed that problem. Its a technique described in the control unleashed book, but you can prob youtube some videos of it. The idea would be to train the off switch in a less distracting environment (no cats involved) then reinforce until it is solid then work on it whenever a cat goes by

To a degree, somehow by chance, Miz Heidi and Kord and kin by behavior.

Kord has a strong reliable leave it, crate for in the house and for outside we taught him House" these three words are undeniably non negotiable. He has to obey them instantly for his safety and my piece of mind. They are reinforced daily.

As for the golden moment, I would disagree, some dogs will just not be able to put instinct on the back burner, animals that run must be chased and so on. Kord is my second to have as adult, Babe was my first. But they are both in a long line of breed we have owned. Babe would chase cats, and ignore me if on the hunt. The house cat was safe, outside strays were a danger, because she would tune EVERYTHING out for the chase. All she saw was a fleeing cat, nothing else mattered to her.

My questions to you, is she like this with the indoor cats as well? are your cats dog savy?

The blinds for now sound feasible.

Dawn, all three cats are now indoors as a result of not trusting Heidi.  Well, that and I came to the realization that its simply not safe for cats to be outside.  Especially in a semi-rural neighborhood.  Two of the three cats I've had for 13+ years, and have always been indoor cats (one is super skiddish of life in general, and the other has no front claws (another life regret).  Its the youngest who is about 4 years old who did have some outside freedom, then turned into an inside cat 100%.  It is this one who instigates trouble in the house.    Grrr.

I agree that her high prey drive gets the best of her.  Interestingly enough...with all the critters around here, she has only caught one thing in her almost 4 years.  And, that was a mole who was running above ground.  She caught it, didn't quite know what to do with it, but ate it (whole and live) right away because I was on my way over to her. 

Julie, I have that book...Control Unleashed.  I'll check that technique out.  I started reading that book a couple of years ago...then just put it down. 

I don't really have any advice but I do have a ton of empathy. At least it's just cats that cause this. In our case, it can be anything from a loud noise to the dogs going crazy next door. It happens so fast that the off or settle command wouldn't even be an option. There have been a few rare occasions where I've seen a potential trigger in advance and been able to head it off but for us, keeping them separated has been the only foolproof method to use. It sounds like you may have some great ideas for dealing with it though, so I wish you the best of luck. I know how frightening it can be.

 Barb no real advice - but plenty of sympathy.  One of my not very bright soon to be (please let the house sell) ex-neighbors adopted a feral cat.  It of course wanders everywhere.  It took several near misses last year and one this year before it figured out NOT to come in our yard.  BUT another neighbor, whose property boundary is shared with us put up a bunch of bird feeders just inside the boundary on our side.  This attracted the feral cat and Bugsy who is intensely cat sharp, who stare at it and get so frustrated.  He knew he couldn't leave his boundary but oh dear Lord did he want the cat.

It took a while for me to realize that this was completely affecting his overall demeanor.  For reasons unknown to me the cat hasn't been around for a couple of months although I saw it the other day in the 'owner's' yard.  But Bugsy is so much more chilled out now that it isn't sitting 15ft away from him stalking birds all day long.

As I said I don't know the solution (other than removing her sight and access to the cats) but have experienced that transferred aggression.

Barb, if it makes you feel any better, I did a lot of work with Nikon and my indoor cats when he was a puppy (I got him at 7 weeks), and his breeder also has cats, but he is just a dog that will never be trustworthy around cats.  It's just what he is.  I can command him to stop/come back/down and stay or whatever, but that doesn't change the arousal for cats.  I mean, we can do Schutzhund training and trialing in a field full of deer, turkey, rabbits, etc and he is under my control but when I'm not there or we're not actively training or working, he's *always* going to be interested in the cat.  Maybe Heidi is the same, and it's really nothing you did or didn't do.

"Anyway, Rick came out and with his big burly voice got them to stop. "

I only wish we could solve our dog problems with a "Burly voice" :)

Cats are so 'varmint-like', I am amazed that large dogs and cats ever live in peace.  Animals have personalities that, like for us, change with time. Is it just inevitable that  Heidi has developed a stronger prey drive and the curtains are THE fix?

But your login is Burl. Certainly, you would have a Burl-y voice.

LOL Ron, that was my thought as well. 

So, keeping the cats completely out of sight has been working.  This week, I'll be ordering my blinds so hopefully this will help.

The other issue with Heidi like I mentioned is that she is hyper.  I am experimenting with Calms Forte to see if this helps with her constant go go go mindset.  I gave her one at dinner time las night and she was a dream in the house.  I gave her one this morning and same thing.  Just a sweet lovey girl to be around.  So, don't get me wrong...when we were outside, she wanted to play.  Invited me to throw her ball...initiated play with Bruder, hung with Rick while he grilled, etc.

I'm thinking about trying 1/2 once a day to see if this helps with the hyperness.   This does not mean she won't get exercised as hard as usual...but what I see makes her much more calm in general.  This can't be a bad thing.  Any opinions as to whether this is a safe thing to do; it is homeopathic.  Good idea?  Bad idea?

BTW Lies...yes that does make me feel better.  Genetics may be an issue here.