Dog Community

distraction - is this good or bad??

Posted : 8/25/2010 10:54:26 AM

Pretty much since day one that Zoey was in the dog run she's had meltdowns everytime I walked away from the run - usually to go feed the donkeys. I tried the whole idea of rewarding her for quiet behavior and stopping when she barks etc. but so far it really hasn't had an effect ( probably my fault! lol) so she still does it. I just ignore her and go do what I need to. But now she can jump and kick off of the fence and actually look over the 6' tall fence!! ( praying she doesn't learn to plant her front feet on the top!)

for awhile I would actually go leash her ( management I think ) so she couldn't get to the end of the run to perform her crazy spazz attack.

other times I will just take her with me, and she's fine, she gets a little worked up if the donks are being feisty, but thats to be expected since she's a herder.

Today, I decided to give her a kong with peanut butter & dog food, to distract her while i walked out there and let the girls out ( they're separated for feedings, Martha is a bully) . I took Bella out, and gave Zoey the kong, started toward the donk pen. zoey ran to go do her 'thing' and I said 'go get your kong', she ran back and happily licked her kong while I went and let the donks out.

So it worked, I distracted her. but I'm thinking is this a good thing or a bad thing? Someday will I be able to walk out there without a distraction for Zoey?

Just curious if this will have any long term benefit, or if it's just a 'management' type of thing.

so far if I have to be out with the donks for training or trimming, i usually just crate Zoey, so me and my trimmer don't have to listen to her have a meltdown the whole time LOL

I think it's more of a 'I want to go with you' meltdown than anything else. What do you all think?

CoBuHe

Posted : 8/25/2010 11:09:12 AM

akyramoto82
I think it's more of a 'I want to go with you' meltdown than anything else.

^^ This is my initial thought. She just wants to be with you; and she doesn't want to miss out on anything that could be fun for her.

Consistency will be the key thing really. If she is consistently kenneled each and every time you go do donk chores...it will become routine and the meltdowns should extinguish. If kenneling is intermittent, she will likely complain about it. Big Smile

JackieG

Posted : 8/25/2010 11:58:01 AM

You distracted her from being upset at your departure and you also rewarded her for being quiet when you gave her the kong. :) Give her a kong every time you pop her in the run. This is the type of training that you have to set up for and do as many times a day as you can. Don't just do it when you "need" to put her in the run. Vary the lengths of time that she remains in the run with the kong. Whenever you come back to the run, remove the kong. Don't greet her or speak to her, other than to praise her being quiet, in a calm (not a "happy to see you voice";) Give it back to her and walk away again. She will learn that when you come back, it's not rewarding but when you leave her there, it is. Rinse and repeat and repeat and repeat.

akyramoto82

Posted : 8/25/2010 12:14:17 PM

JackieG
You distracted her from being upset at your departure and you also rewarded her for being quiet when you gave her the kong. :) Give her a kong every time you pop her in the run. This is the type of training that you have to set up for and do as many times a day as you can. Don't just do it when you "need" to put her in the run. Vary the lengths of time that she remains in the run with the kong. Whenever you come back to the run, remove the kong. Don't greet her or speak to her, other than to praise her being quiet, in a calm (not a "happy to see you voice";) Give it back to her and walk away again. She will learn that when you come back, it's not rewarding but when you leave her there, it is. Rinse and repeat and repeat and repeat.

OK, so it can end up being a good thing, she'll learn that me leaving isn't a bad thing.

She's in the run almost everyday ( with Bella) unless she goes to work with me, during the summer months it's the only 'fox tail free' zone on my whole property. Not to mention i have to add more hotwire soon so in the winter time she can't go chasing donkeys.

I didn't say anything to her when I came back, she was still working on the kong, I just slipped bella back in & took the empty kong about ten minutes later. ( i can't keep Bella in there, since Zoey is kinda food aggressive)

I just wanted to make sure it wasn't one of those 'ooh I'm gonna act up and then she gives me that peanut butter thing' cuz thats how the donks think! they're tricky!! Zoe also picks up on all kinds of stuff. She realized that everytime I put my flip flops on out on the patio I was *most* likely going to walk out into the yard away from her, so she would actually start running to the end of the run to get 'ready'. So when I realized that, I started just putting my flip flops on, then walking around the patio, taking them off, putting them back on, going in the house. Really switching it up so she couldn't predict what I was going to do.

JackieG

Posted : 8/25/2010 1:59:30 PM

akyramoto82
I just wanted to make sure it wasn't one of those 'ooh I'm gonna act up and then she gives me that peanut butter thing'

It can become that, if you're timing is wrong. You give her the kong before she has a chance to act up. It should become, in her mind, a great thing when she's put in the run with the kong and you leave. She should be waving goodbye to you as she works on her kong. lol

Jewlieee

Posted : 8/25/2010 3:35:38 PM

Yeah, you can train that bad behavior chain - for instance, when I was trying to train lily to not jump on me (or others) for attention, I would ignore her when she jumped until she sat then I gave her attention. Well, she linked in her mind the following: jump on mom, sit and look pretty, get attention.

This is the problem with really smart dogs and dogs who ritualize quickly. Neiko ritualizes fast too and will try to make his own decisions based on what behavior chain has worked before.

I do not think that giving her a kong when you go work with the donks is a bad thing. Letting her practice her nutso behavior will only reinforce that nutso behavior. She is stressing out because she is not with you for a fun thing. So, by making positive things happen when you go work with the donks, you going to work with the donks becomes a good thing.

It's the same thing with dog reactivity. The more the dog gets to practice the reactivity behavior, the stronger that behavior becomes. So, you fix that by practicing an alternative behavior in the face of the stresser. For Abbie's dog reactivity, we are practicing rewarding her for dogs coming towards her or for walking nicely on leash next to another dog. The reward goes away when the stressor (dog) goes away. So now, she wants the dog near her so she gets the reward.

So, all this rambling aside, get rid of the predictors, don't let her practice the nutso behavior but instead let her practice the good behavior (happy kong treat time). The happy calm feeling will be reinforced again and again so that the other stuff should go away.

akyramoto82

Posted : 8/27/2010 1:53:36 PM

Thanks Jewileee, that pretty much answers my questions! LOL

Zoey is fast to ritualize too, she's figured out if I want her to sit before we move on, or I unleash her, she knows as soon as she does it after that it's BAM and she's off trying to run. So i need to teach her to almost wait, its like she's saying 'oh ok, i gotta be good, I was good!! WEEE!!!!' and her brain is off to the next thing. sometimes she tries to take off before i even unleash her, so when she tries to bolt i stand back up, and then she realizes she's still leashed. Trying to teach her that she has to wait patiently for me to do my thing.

Same thing happens on recalls, she comes, then as soon as she gets to me she turns right back around and takes off. So I've been training MYSELF to grab her collar LOL and teach her that a recall is also ' you might have to stay here for just a bit'