Any time you have a pup that has been thru a lot there are *always* vestiges of that for a long long time.

I never *ever* deny water ... however, I do **limit** it -- for example -- for a dog like this a lick bottle sometimes works grand ... OR ice, rather than just a bowl of water. But if it makes her obscess then nope -- her bowl becomes empty ... that's her problem.

Honestly -- before you do anything too structured, probably the very *first* thing on my list would be both a full urinalysis (not just a little one -- get the whole 9 yards so you uncover ANY possible problems)  *and* a full blood panel.

I learned a TON with Tinkerbell.  I could kick myself six different ways *now* for NOT doing a blood panel when she first got to Orlando.  I coulda saved myselfl MONTHS of work (and her a whole lot of sore skin!) because her liver values were *just* off enough that the demodex wouldn't resolve.

There was nothing specifically that pointed to the liver (except, as you may recall, she got into chocolate at Christmas - "the Christmas of the Sparkle Poop"???? *sigh*) .  BUT at this point my vets and I think it very likely that she may have had some off liver values way way back at the beginning.  We know her breeding was nothing to brag about, and she'd been thru h-e-double-hockey-sticks. 

WAS it just her shenanigans at Christmas that knocked the liver off?  or ... not.  I'll never know. 

Now this pup isn't "sickly" but she's got some issues.  (most do, frankly).  So ... if you go do bloodwork and a urinalysis and she comes out spanking clean -- sooo???  You've got a darned good "baseline" for ANY future problem.  You never EVER have to wonder "I wonder how long *this* has gone on?? -- you KNOW.

Frankly -- I'll never ever take another puppy again without a full blood panel and a urinalysis.  If the urine is too alkalyne or too acid -- frankly knowing now helps avoid a ton of stuff.  If everything looks grand then GREAT.  We'll know later on if something is "high or low" because we've got a baseline.

We've all gotta do chemicals to a degree for heartworm prevention, fleas, ticks, etc. (particularly living in Texas and Flooor-daaa)  and it's a given they're hard on the kidneys and liver.  So the baseline will eventually come in handy. 

Since she's a drinker -- you really need to know what the specific gravity is -- you don't want to find renal issues *later*.

 Now -- ALL that said -- do you remember Pollyanna?  My little abused pup (she couldn't walk because her abuser broke her back).  She had been seriously starved.  So much so that food of ANY sort literally caused her panic attacks.  Particularly if she couldn't get TO it.

But ... once they discover the basic structure;

1.  There WILL be food here -- more than once a day.  It happens morning and night (and maybe 3 times since she's a wee one)

2.  There is ROUTINE.  this ... then this ... then Mom goes to the kitchen and we gotta "sit" ... and sit ... and SIT ....

And eventually you may have to sit there and STARE at the wall with your arms folded until things settle down ... then put the bowls down.

(This makes me remember teaching 5th grade and the days when I would just sit at my desk and start to count ... 1, 2, 3, ... until SOME bright light would say "Shhhhhh, she's COUNTING ... SHUT UP ... SHE WON"T STOP UNTIL WE"RE QUIET!!!!!"  Some days I got to 3 ... some days I got t 103 ... )  I'm not advocating teaching your dog to count (they do that well enough sometimes *grin*) BUT ... you will arrive at things to promote peace (if you're patient ... and I think you are *smile*)

My point is ... structure is your friend.

3.  Some days just let her experience new and wonderful things and flavors.  It can honestly help elevate the panic from mere panic to joy.  I so clearly remember the day i took all the dogs, with Polly, in the car just to go get ice cream.  Just plain strawberry ice cream with strawberries on top. 

Suddenly it wasn't just food ... this was ... *sigh* close to Nirvana for her.  But she "got it" that this was just plain something done for JOY.  Going out to something special .. everbuddy got some.  Not lots ... just a liddle.  But ... yep -- Foxy, then Socks ... then ME ... (even in this .. the routine).

You may never completely eradicate some of the panic and eagerness.  I never was able to with Kee Shu (and she had been starved as well).  But ... it wasn't panic.  It became -- with her -- the observations of an old dog who suddenly wasn't terrified of reprisal for her to vocalized a bit over food. 

With Kee it wasn't there to start with. Oh she'd "shake" and tremble ... but her vocalization didn't happen until she began to feel comfortable within the structure.   

4.  You will need to watch Gabby *carefully* as she begins to settle in and "belong".  Because once she gets the least bit comfortable with her status in the pack she will likely try some resource guarding and you won't want to let that happen.  Again -- structure will be your friend.  You may not even see it until she hits that 'teenager' period where she's a bit "bigger than her britches" if that makes sense. 

+++++++++++++++

If I can make one recommendation -- don't let her obsess -- don't let it become a habit.  Because it can degenerate into a seizury type of state.  It will likely seem like it's all you ever use "leave it" for -- but it will be important. 

Poor gal -- it's scarey to imagine what they went thru to have it manifest like that.  To be THAT thirsty.  THAT hungry. 

You've probably ruled this out already,diabetes?If it is psycological you might be able to use a sport top drinking bottle and carry it with you to "treat" her with a squirt for being calm/quiet.A freeshaping sort of thing.

Tena

JackieG

Any thoughts and ideas are welcome.

most of my thoughts and ideas are "wow is this puppy lucky she landed in your hands!"

Other thoughts are that since she has gotten better about the food, she will get better about the water.  Bugsy was not too dissimilar about eating for the first months (he had been a stray found at about 9-10wks) and long after we had him he still was impossible when he got hungry.

JackieG

it's a little disturbing because I feel as though I'm depriving her, even though I know that she has been fed and given plenty of water

I completely understand why it is disturbing but your rational mind must overrule your emotions (and I know they are).  I would probably when possible, try to distract her when she starts getting too interested in her hunt for water - use the clicker and do something different and removed from water.  When the diversion is complete may be reward her by letting her play in water.

This may be way off target but I would be very structured about where and when she gets water to drink.

As for the health issues others have mentioned - I know that you have had her to the vet several times and would have had her checked out for things already.

Good luck and I hope more knowledgeable and experienced people give you some better ideas - keep us posted!

My "boxer in law" was like that for a long time after they got him - he had been crazy starved, plus fed a rice-packed food (and we later realized he's allergic to rice, so what food he did get didn't stay down). He was 3 when his owner finally surrendered him, so it did take a long time for him to get over his food obsession. He's still extremely food-motivated, and also is an opportunistic scrounger (helloooooo counter surfing), but he is much, much, much more relaxed about food than he used to be. A big thing that seemed to help with him is breaking his meals into smaller portions throughout the day so he wouldn't sit with an empty stomach. Once he got used to being provided for regularly, he really seemed to relax. Now he's just fed twice a day, with the occasional biscuit in between, and he goes to his crate, lies down, and stays on command while the cat is fed, Rascal is fed (when we're there), his food is placed before him, and then he gets the release word. Sure, he drools a lot while waiting, but he doesn't get frantic/desperate like he used to when it was dinner time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't worry, I'm sure with time (and the love and patience and training you're giving her) it will get much much better. :)

I haven't ruled out a medical problem, like diabetes but that's on the agenda for the Vet visit next week.   Initially, I wasn't that concerned because it seemed normal for her to be so desperately seeking food and water, given her obviously hard start in life.   The quest for water has continued unabated and I have had that little voice in the back of my mind that's whispering "diabetes".   I hope we rule that out next week.

I do distract her from the water and she willingly follows me away from it, if she's been allowed to drink a little.  Even if I only let her have a tiny amount, she will come to me. But I can tell she would rather stay and drink.  As long as she is engaged in another activity she doesn't try and get to the water.  I float her food in water and also give her water at regular times during the day.  I've  been using water (recent) and food (since I found her) as rewards for good behavior.  If I allow her to drink her fill of water, she will not stop and her little belly swells so full that I end up calling her away with a squeaky or a food treat.  I've only tried that a few times.  A few people have suggested that I just allow her to drink all she wants, when I give her water but they don't have to take her outside to potty 15 times an hour.  She couldn't possibly hold her urine at this age with such a huge intake of water.  I'd like to avoid as many accidents as possible for the obvious reasons.

Courtney, feeding her four or five times a day has helped.  That was one of my first strategies to help her feel that she wasn't going long times without food.  I do think that has helped with the food obsession.  I hope you're right and it's how I'm leaning at the moment. 

 I do think the fact that she was surviving outdoors in our hot summer had to contribute to her obsession with water
(if it's not a medical issue).  She was sitting in the road, near a drainage ditch that collects the occasional rain shower. There were houses not terribly far away but pretty far for a pup her size and age.  I wonder if she would be this water obsessed if she had found herself foraging during cooler, wetter weather.  Just speculation since it is what it is. 

Thanks for the ideas and input.  Much appreciated and any further thoughts and advice are most welcome.  :)

 

JackieG

If I allow her to drink her fill of water, she will not stop and her little belly swells so full that I end up calling her away with a squeaky or a food treat.  I've only tried that a few times.  A few people have suggested that I just allow her to drink all she wants,

I know you aren't doing this but please tell your friends about hyponatremia   - essentially water intoxication.  I would imagine that this could happen to a dog and with a teeny little'un like Gabby I would think it not too difficult.

(DH has actually been turned out for a 'job' and the person died of this!  That is how I learned of it)

kpwlee

JackieG

If I allow her to drink her fill of water, she will not stop and her little belly swells so full that I end up calling her away with a squeaky or a food treat.  I've only tried that a few times.  A few people have suggested that I just allow her to drink all she wants,

I know you aren't doing this but please tell your friends about hyponatremia   - essentially water intoxication.  I would imagine that this could happen to a dog and with a teeny little'un like Gabby I would think it not too difficult.

(DH has actually been turned out for a 'job' and the person died of this!  That is how I learned of it)

Thanks, Karen.  I didn't think that was a good idea and I had heard of water intoxication in people, though I didn't know the medical term.  I will pass the info along to the people who suggested it. 

 I didn't mean to sound like an extremist but due to her teeny-ness this did come to mind

kpwlee

 I didn't mean to sound like an extremist but due to her teeny-ness this did come to mind

Not extremist sounding, at all.  I don't think excess of anything is healthy and especially in the very young/small or for seniors and health compromised dogs or people.  Someone else suggested I use a self feeder.  :(  Well meainng people can come up with some pretty bad ideas.  I tend to trust my general knowledge and if I am unsure, I ask an expert and do my own research.  

JackieG

Well meainng people can come up with some pretty bad ideas.  I tend to trust my general knowledge and if I am unsure, I ask an expert and do my own research.

Geez, Jackie, don't you know we're all experts here? That is why you posted, right? 

Seriously, I hope you find answers soon.

 

I was wondering how things were going with you and the little one! Sounds like some work indeed!

I don't really have much advice, to be honest, as I've never dealt long-term with an issue like this, but I am tuning in in case I ever get a client, or dog of my own, that has some of these issues.

sharismom

Geez, Jackie, don't you know we're all experts here? That is why you posted, right? 

 

You're such a trouble maker. lol  You know I wasn't referring to anyone HERE.  Not yet, anyway. :)  Kidding, just kidding.

 

 I didn't read through all of the posts, just dropping by the forums really quickly.

 However, I have an idea that is really outside of the box. Think about this - why not do some trick training that involves water. For example, I taught Lily to blow bubbles in a dish full of water. I play dunk games with their toys and the dogs have to go in and retrieve their toys from water.

The idea behind this would be to desensitize her to water so that it no longer is an obsession. 

For food, I would give her fillers - like frozen green beans with her food to make her feel more full. I'd also feed her several times per day so she never really feels hungry. Kind of like how people try to lose weight by eating smaller meals 5-6 times per day.

I'm not sure how'd you do that unless you brought her to work daily, but....

JackieG

You're such a trouble maker. lol 

It's my inner Amanda coming to the surface.