Do Dogs Intentionally Use Their Body Language to Communicate?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Do Dogs Intentionally Use Their Body Language to Communicate?

    Hello, Dog Lovers!

    For anyone interested, here's a link to my latest article at PsychologyToday.com: "Do Dogs Intentionally Use Their Body Language to Communicate?"

    It should spark a lively debate!

    LCK

    • Gold Top Dog

     Without reading the article, I say yes. When she feels threatened her ears go flat, she yawns, avoids direct eye contact and pants. If another dog is threatening to her she'll go belly up real quick.

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    I think it's interesting that humans have so much arrogance as to err on the side of dogs not having abilities which, if you spend much time really observing them, it becomes quite apparent that they do have.  Of course, how much ability they have versus how much ability we have is certainly something that bears investigation, but I think that we are more alike than dissimilar with other species, if we just get arrogance out of the way and keep an open mind. 

    We humans sometimes snicker when another person has his/her back to us - do you think that means we are doing it completely without intent, or that we haven't the ability to stop ourselves? (well, maybe if the jackass we are laughing at is funny enough...)


    • Gold Top Dog

    For the most part, I agree that dogs tend to behave to achieve certain outcomes and when that involves another animal there is communication involved, but probably not intentional communication in the sense LCK is talking about.

    As an interesting thing to think about, I call my cuddlebear Kivi "confidently submissive". He seems to be a great social dog with a good sense of how to behave to achieve social harmony with other dogs. I've seen him approach dogs with exaggerrated submissive signals as if he's saying "No threat here AT ALL, I promise" with some dogs and with others it's more like "Hey, just gonna come over and check you out, nothing to worry about." I find it interesting that he approaches dogs differently depending on, presumably, how he reads them. Sometimes he'll greet a dog in a novel or unusual way and I wonder just what he's doing and why he behaved that way. And why it seems to be the right way to approach that particular dog.

    So I would say that in some sense he modifies his signals to suit the dog he's approaching, but that it is still to achieve the basic aim of social harmony. He's very clever about social situations sometimes.

    • Gold Top Dog

    For instance, my dog Freddie used to bare his teeth whenever he took a bone from me. Was he communicating his aggressive intent to the bone?

    Why would you necessarily attribute the baring of teeth only to an aggressive or ritualized aggressive display?  Quite possibly, what you were seeing was an appeasement behavior (submissive grin).  After all, Freddie was getting the bone from the all-powerful being with the opposable thumbs.

    • Gold Top Dog

    spiritdogs

    For instance, my dog Freddie used to bare his teeth whenever he took a bone from me. Was he communicating his aggressive intent to the bone?

    Why would you necessarily attribute the baring of teeth only to an aggressive or ritualized aggressive display?  Quite possibly, what you were seeing was an appeasement behavior (submissive grin).  After all, Freddie was getting the bone from the all-powerful being with the opposable thumbs.

     

    Hi, SpiritDogs,

    You bring up an interesting point.

    It's especially interesting to me because I had actually taught Freddie to "smile" on command (Dalmatians are supposedly the only breed who routinely exhibit the "submissive grin";), and so I had seen him do it on numerous occasions, with numerous triggers, some unrelated to me. I had also seen him, on rare occasions, bare his teeth while in an aggressive mood (which he did only when he was cornered by an aggressive intact male). As a result, I think I have a pretty good idea of the difference between the "smiling" behavior and the "snarling" one. And while the way he bared his teeth when cornered was more intense, it still bore more of a resemblance to his "bone-taking" behavior I described in my article than to his smiley one. In fact, I would say they bore almost no resemblance to each other at all.

    At any rate, my point was that this "teeth-baring" behavior, which I think is a reflex, is said to be about "communicating aggressive intent." In my estimation it's more of an autonomic nervous-system response, designed to get a dog's lips out of the way of his teeth when he has a strong urge to bite. And as further proof, in my article, I offered the case of Augie Doggie, a pit bull I knew, who didn't have this reflex, and unfortunately, couldn't be given chew toys because he kept biting through his own flesh while trying to chew on them.

    LCK

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    Lee Charles Kelley
    For anyone interested, here's a link to my latest article at PsychologyToday.com: "Do Dogs Intentionally Use Their Body Language to Communicate?"

     

    I fail to see why a question like this should be asked in the 21st century. I would think these type of questions would be interesting to ask back in the 19th or 18th century

    • Gold Top Dog

    *sigh*  This thread is based on spam. 

    Mr. Kelly -- I'm sorry, but it tells ME soooooo much that your avatar is YOUR OWN PICTURE

    spam.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

     Submissive grins are also common in Chinese Cresteds, and I know a Coonhound and a few Dobermans (wanna talk about scary?) that do it, too. First time Puzzle, the Dobe, grinned at me, I took a serious step back, LOL.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I knew a Rottweiler who did it as well.

    Her name was Baby, and she was as sweet as could be.

    LCK

    • Gold Top Dog

     

    calliecritturs

    *sigh*  This thread is based on spam. 

    Mr. Kelly -- I'm sorry, but it tells ME soooooo much that your avatar is YOUR OWN PICTURE



    That's funny, I just changed my avatar a few months ago from a picture of my dearly departed Freddie, which has been on this site for several years. Also, I didn't know there was a strict requirement to use a picture of one's dog, or what using my own picture could possibly tell you about me, except the fact that I finally found a picture of myself I like, and, thus, was perhaps being a bit vain by replacing Freddie's photo.

    LCK

    • Gold Top Dog

    Lee Charles Kelley

    spiritdogs

    For instance, my dog Freddie used to bare his teeth whenever he took a bone from me. Was he communicating his aggressive intent to the bone?

    Why would you necessarily attribute the baring of teeth only to an aggressive or ritualized aggressive display?  Quite possibly, what you were seeing was an appeasement behavior (submissive grin).  After all, Freddie was getting the bone from the all-powerful being with the opposable thumbs.

     

    Hi, SpiritDogs,

    You bring up an interesting point.

    It's especially interesting to me because I had actually taught Freddie to "smile" on command (Dalmatians are supposedly the only breed who routinely exhibit the "submissive grin";), and so I had seen him do it on numerous occasions, with numerous triggers, some unrelated to me. I had also seen him, on rare occasions, bare his teeth while in an aggressive mood (which he did only when he was cornered by an aggressive intact male). As a result, I think I have a pretty good idea of the difference between the "smiling" behavior and the "snarling" one. And while the way he bared his teeth when cornered was more intense, it still bore more of a resemblance to his "bone-taking" behavior I described in my article than to his smiley one. In fact, I would say they bore almost no resemblance to each other at all.

    At any rate, my point was that this "teeth-baring" behavior, which I think is a reflex, is said to be about "communicating aggressive intent." In my estimation it's more of an autonomic nervous-system response, designed to get a dog's lips out of the way of his teeth when he has a strong urge to bite. And as further proof, in my article, I offered the case of Augie Doggie, a pit bull I knew, who didn't have this reflex, and unfortunately, couldn't be given chew toys because he kept biting through his own flesh while trying to chew on them.

    LCK

     

     

    You've been reading too much and not observing enough breeds lol.  Australian Shepherds are well known for grinning (I have two that do it occasionally), and I have a lovely client Border Collie/Pyrenees mix who does it routinely.   I would be more interested in knowing the position of the dog's commissures and where his tongue was before I would decide if teeth-baring was an aggressive display or not.  In any case, I think that dogs clearly communicate intent and there's not much that is reflexive about defending a bone.  Some dogs will not do it, in fact.  Others will clearly use distance increasing signals, or launch an aggressive response.  Pit Bulls, as a breed, are one of the only breeds that do not display the way other dogs do, and I believe that it isn't because they don't have a reflex, I believe it's because they developed it as a survival mechanism for the fighting ring which was selectively bred by humans.  They also developed insensitivity to pain, which isn't the equivalent of lack of reflex.  Thus, I think that your arguments, while interesting and worthy of more investigation, are currently supported only by your own, perhaps faulty, observations and anecdote, and not by any substantial statistically significant scientific inquiry.  When that changes, let me know and cite the studies.

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    espencer

    I fail to see why a question like this should be asked in the 21st century. I would think these type of questions would be interesting to ask back in the 19th or 18th century

     

    Ditto.  For me, intelligence and some form of language/communication go hand in hand.  Just because *we* cannot correctly interpret all the caveats of canine communication does not mean it's not there or any less complex than our own.

    • Gold Top Dog

    spiritdogs

    I think that dogs clearly communicate intent and there's not much that is reflexive about defending a bone.  Some dogs will not do it, in fact.  Others will clearly use distance increasing signals, or launch an aggressive response.  Pit Bulls, as a breed, are one of the only breeds that do not display the way other dogs do, and I believe that it isn't because they don't have a reflex, I believe it's because they developed it as a survival mechanism for the fighting ring which was selectively bred by humans.

     

    Hi, SpiritDogs,

    Thanks for your reply.

    Just to clear up one point, I never said that pit bulls don't have the lip-curling reflex, just that a pit I knew named Augie Doggie didn't have it (though parts of your discussion about pit bulls may be relevant to why he didn't have it).

    As to your statement that "dogs clearly communicate intent," I would offer that that's probably based primarily on human projection; we tend to project our own kinds of thought processes onto our pets, especially when there's a momentary lull in the action. We see that little lacuna and we unconsciously say to ourselves, "He's thinking about it..." Then, after the lull, when the dog finally takes action on whatever stimulus or situation he was presented with, we're convinced that his behavior was the result of a very deliberate and conscious, internal thought process, when it's more likely the result of an internal emotional process: i.e., the dog "feels" out the situation (rather than thinking it through) before acting.

    Also, in order for you to show that "dogs clearly communicate intent," you would have to explain how a dog is a) consciously aware of his own internal states, b) consciously aware that other beings have internal states similar and dissimilar to his, and c) you would have to explain how a dog can exert conscious control over the movements of his body parts in order to communicate information about himself to those other beings.

    Helen Keller said that before she learned to use sign language she had no awareness of her own internal states. This would strongly indicate that the use of some kind of language, written, spoken, or signed, is a necessary prerequisite for the first level of intent I described in my article (and paraphrased in the above paragraph). If this is so, then in order for your statement "dogs clearly communicate intent" to be so, it would mean that dogs have the ability to use language, written, spoken, or signed. (If I'm not mistaken, I think you mentioned in another post that this is part of what you believe about dogs.) But in order for that to be true we'd have to get into a debate about if and how and why evolution would provide dogs with a linguistic ability without also providing them a means of speaking, writing, or signing their thoughts through words.

    Don't get me wrong. I think dogs are amazing animals. And I think they're one of the most expressive species as well. In fact one of the most interesting things about dogs is their ability to exhibit reflexive behaviors (such as a play bow) and fixed-action patterns (like the stalking behavior) in a complex variety of ways, where other animals can't; their fixed-action patterns are far more fixed than what we see in dogs, who seem to be able to improvise on those patterns the way jazz musicians improvise on a fixed melody line. This ability of dogs to "improvise," which I think comes from their emotional flexibility, may be one reason so many people, scientists included, believe that dogs are thinking things through rather than acting on pure instinct or emotion. So what I'm trying to get at in this article is whether dogs' abilities to communicate are based on deliberate, conscious thought processes, or pure emotion (or some other facility, such as telepathy, which has been proposed by Oxford's Rupert Sheldrake and veteran dog trainer William Campbell).

    As for the main thrust of my article, whether dogs have the ability to form the intent to report information, and therefore have the ability to consciously use their body language to do so, I think that is quite worthy of discussion. The main reason is because far too many people who believe their dogs can think -- that their dogs "know what they did was wrong," or that they do things deliberately, etc. -- end up mistreating their dogs as a result. If we can educate people that dogs are feeling beings, but that they don't do things "on purpose," or "deliberately," or with malicious intent, then fewer dogs will be hurt of mistreated or misunderstood.

    That's my hope, anyway.

    LCK

    I also disagree with the idea of "distance-increasing signals." But that's a topic for another day.

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    Liesje

    espencer

    I fail to see why a question like this should be asked in the 21st century. I would think these type of questions would be interesting to ask back in the 19th or 18th century

     

    Ditto.  For me, intelligence and some form of language/communication go hand in hand.  Just because *we* cannot correctly interpret all the caveats of canine communication does not mean it's not there or any less complex than our own.

     

    I agree, and I think it's premature to say just how much intention dogs possess, when we are so clumsy at their language in the first place.  I wish that LCT would stop using the "we" to describe what he thinks people erroneously attribute to dogs.  I assure him, and everyone, that I am not anthropomorphizing or putting my own human interpretations on anything.  What I am doing is observing a lot of dog behavior on a daily basis, and drawing some conclusions or correlations from what I see.  No different for me to make anecdotal statements than for anyone else to do so.  Interestingly, Sioux has been invited back for more testing at the Canine Cognition Lab.  If I can remember, I'll try to ask if they have any input on this discussion based on their current work.